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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Wearing a sword on one's back Reply to topic
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Feb, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:


Oh no I may have revived the dead horse with all my replies. Eek! Razz Laughing Out Loud Cool


Please NOOO!!!
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Benjamin H. Abbott




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It may already have been mentioned, but Chinese infantry apparently carried their big chopping swords (da kan dao) on the back during the 1930s. More info and photos here.
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin H. Abbott wrote:
It may already have been mentioned, but Chinese infantry apparently carried their big chopping swords (da kan dao) on the back during the 1930s. More info and photos here.


Yup - those are historical photos. Therefore, we KNOW this can be done.... I am still not sure HOW.

In my case - I would love data on something I can not see well in these photos.... the front straps used in a back carry system that obviously WORKED.

For quite a while? I've been investigating a combination back carry scabbard/ quick release stud front carry harness. Objective: drop the entire scabbard off the back, FAST, for draw speed (and the actual ability to DRAW without loosing an ear). I already have this for my bow and quiver - and it works well.

Any more info on the construction of those working systems?

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dean F. Marino wrote:

In my case - I would love data on something I can not see well in these photos.... the front straps used in a back carry system that obviously WORKED.


It's just a simple strap, like a rifle sling.

These dadao aren't drawn from the back; the straps just for carrying them. In some cases, the sword can't be drawn from the end of the scabbard without undoing a strap or flap on the back-edge side of the scabbard, since the tip of the sword is broader than the base of the blade, and the scabbard is closely fit to the blade.

Sometimes dadao were worn slung on the back with no scabbard, with the strap going around the bare blade.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Jeroen T




Location: Holland
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb, 2014 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

W. R. Reynolds wrote:
Has anyone ever done a lot of walking with a sword belted around the waist? Most of the stuff I do is mounted but when I do get off the horse and walk around, the sword can sometimes become a nuisance, at times requiring a hand on the hilt to keep it from hitting things.

How about this? If you were a foot soldier faced with a long march with no action imminent, taking the belt off your waist and looping it over your shoulder to keep the sword from banging into the guy next to you or getting caught in the wheel of a cart or hitting the legs of a passing horse etc. Could be an explanation for any period art (although I haven't seen any) depicting this.


Thatīs my thought exactly, ofcourse you do not carry a sword on your back on a battlefield.
But when traveling it's the easiest way to carry a sword especially a longer sword.

A singlehanded sword on your waist can be pretty comfortable. But when you enter a croud or walking in a building you notice that your constantly busy with avoiding to hit things and people.
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Philip Dyer





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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeroen T wrote:
W. R. Reynolds wrote:
Has anyone ever done a lot of walking with a sword belted around the waist? Most of the stuff I do is mounted but when I do get off the horse and walk around, the sword can sometimes become a nuisance, at times requiring a hand on the hilt to keep it from hitting things.

How about this? If you were a foot soldier faced with a long march with no action imminent, taking the belt off your waist and looping it over your shoulder to keep the sword from banging into the guy next to you or getting caught in the wheel of a cart or hitting the legs of a passing horse etc. Could be an explanation for any period art (although I haven't seen any) depicting this.


Thatīs my thought exactly, ofcourse you do not carry a sword on your back on a battlefield.
But when traveling it's the easiest way to carry a sword especially a longer sword.

A singlehanded sword on your waist can be pretty comfortable. But when you enter a croud or walking in a building you notice that your constantly busy with avoiding to hit things and people.

Also another use I can think of of the across the back thing is to allow to to carry your scabbard around in combat without flopping around as much due to it laying on a broader surface. A man could suspend it like rifle, draw it from that positon or wiggle in to it drops to his hand, then draw the sword sling the scabbard across the back with the free hand before gripping the sword, that way he can run, attack, etc without worrying about losing his scabbard or it being a distract in combat like your had a two handed sword scabbard suspend by your hip. You also raise a very good point. Most the time of the Warriors would spent their time walking, pitching tents, etc.
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D. S. Smith




Location: Central CA
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeroen T wrote:

... But when you enter a croud or walking in a building you notice that your constantly busy with avoiding to hit things and people.



Peter Johnsson made interesting points about this in an email, and I was hoping he'd chime in on this topic. He mentioned that knights would "steer" the sword with the pommel as they walked. Anyone who has worn a sword at the hip to a Renfaire has experienced this...it works quite effectively. But Peter went on to say that with people who wore swords daily, it would become so relaxed and second nature that it would be like the hunter with his rifle held in the crook of his arm. No conscious thought would have to be spent on protecting the sword, other people, or obstacles from damage because it would become intuitive. I think he hit the nail on the head.

I carry a handgun daily, and a carbine on occasion. It's become second nature to me to rest my gun hand and arm on the grip and slide of the handgun, which helps for both the draw indexing and retention. When officers are new, this is a conscious decision and thought process, but after you do it year after year, and decade after decade, it becomes second nature and requires no conscious thought. The same is true of a balanced, bladed stance, and situational awareness. The carbine on the other hand, we train with often, but carry infrequently. This makes it much less intuitive, and I'm constantly banging my legs, car door, doorways, etc with the muzzle. In fact just this afternoon I smacked my jaw with the butt stock of my carbine while getting out of the driver's seat on a call. If I carried a carbine daily like soldiers do, I'm sure it would be as second nature as a knight and his sword.
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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Mon 17 Feb, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another important issue to remember with banging a sword scabbard on objects and people is, well, attitude. In today's egalitarian word we feel embarrassed if we accidentally bump somebody else's leg with the end of a hip-slung scabbard. But back then, if you had the wealth and social clout to wear a sheathed sword in public, you'd probably expect that it's other people's responsibility to stay clear of your scabbard, not yours to keep it out of their way. The scabbard effectively becomes an extension of a dominant body language (broad, swaggering strides, with arms held well away from the body to occupy more space). In fact, if somebody else bumped your scabbard, it'd be perfect grounds for you to demand satisfaction from the mannerless lout, whether an abject apology (for lower-class people) or a duel (for somebody of the same social class).

We could take a parallel example from Japan, where the katana (or rather the daisho -- the katana and wakizashi paired together) is worn thrust through a cloth belt/sash. The angle at which the scabbard is worn carries social implications; a person of higher rank who could demand more respect in the present situation would wear the scabbard almost horizontally, while others of lesser rank would wear it at lower angles. The higher-ranked (or at least more feared/respected) person is expected to take up more personal space and everybody else were supposed to be careful in making their way around it. And the sword-wearer often had the right to strike down (or at least seriously berate) anyone insolent enough to bump his scabbard. I have a hard time believing the idea that similar dynamics didn't exist in Europe.

And for members here with military or law-enforcement experience: haven't any of you noticed people giving you a wider berth when they know that you're carrying or wearing a weapon? From what I've noticed, even squad-mates give each other more room when they're both armed.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Feb, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philip Dyer wrote:
Most the time of the Warriors would spent their time walking, pitching tents, etc.


But would they be wearing their weapons when they're occupied with such camp and fatigue duties? I doubt it. Modern soldiers stack their rifles or hand them over to their buddies when they want to dig a ditch or erect a tent. I don't see why ancient and medieval soldiers couldn't do the same. If they're worried about enemy attack, then wearing a sword on the back is a pretty clumsy and impractical alternative compared to having a fully armed and prepared security detachment to hold back any enemies just long enough for the rest of the soldiers to rearm and join the fight. That is what the Romans did -- and what modern soldiers still do. Because it works.

(This applies to marching, too. For the main body of the troop, it shouldn't matter if the weapons are left with the servants or in a nearby supply cart or something, since the scouting detachments are out there to prevent surprises while the vanguard, rearguard, and flank guards should slow any serious attack down and give everybody else the time to arm and deploy).
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