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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Viking sword         Reply with quote

Hank Reinhardt wrote:
If there is any one thing I have learned in over 60 years study of arms and armour, it is that there are no unbreakabloe rules or that such swords never existed until--------. .... Two hand and hand and a half swords sure were not common, nor do we have any examples, but I would not go so far as to say that no one ever used one. (posted example is exluded until age and source is verified.)


Hank,
That's a great point. We simply don't know enough a lot of these topics to talk in absolutes. I doubt they were common as well, but there's archeological and pictorial evidence that places them at the scene of the crime, so to speak. I guess we're all just waiting for the next big discovery to tell us more information. Happy

As another example, there is a Type XIIIa in Records of the Medieval Sword (Type XIIIa.11) whose faceted wheel pommel is very similar to swords found in Viking graves by Dr. Leppaaho. Its cross is very much a gaddhjalt style. Its blade is long enough for Type XIIIa classification, but is more similar to Type XI blades. Oakeshott dates it "? Early for this type c.1200-50 - or 100-50, more likely." That doesn't put it into the typical Viking era, by any means, but it does show strong similarities to pommel and blade forms used in the Viking Age and it is an earlier example of a great sword than we typically find. Is it an aberration or incorrectly dated? Or are there more of these waiting to be discovered that will blow our notions out the door? Who knows? Fascinating to think about, though, isn't it? Happy

Happy

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Net Uno




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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
From the Appendix to The Sword in the Age of Chivalry:

Quote:
Incontrovertible evidence that the use of a long (7"-8") grip and a "wheel" pommel were in use in the Viking Age is given by a watercolour drawing (dated 1846 and owned by the Society of Antiquaries) of the grave-goods of a 10th century Viking tomb cleared at Claughton Hall in Lancashire.


Chad, I can't see how a 19th century watercolour drawing could be an evidence for the existence of viking great swords. There aren't earlier drawings?

Could you link the drawing, please? Thanks! Wink

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Net Uno wrote:
Chad, I can't see how a 19th century watercolour drawing could be an evidence for the existence of viking great swords. There aren't earlier drawings?

Could you link the drawing, please? Thanks! Wink


Net,
I'm quoting another author and that's all the info I have. The book that quote came from didn't have that watercolor image.

Happy

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Net Uno




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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm affraid you are right.

I found the book here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TXdbAAAAIA...mp;f=false. There is a drawing (by John Weld) but not the original watercolour drawing (by Edward Jones).

It will be great find the original Jones's watercolour drawing on the net.

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J Helmes
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck Russell wrote:


http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...half+sword

there is a hot debate on if this sword is real or not by the profs i think that found it. i dont subscribe to the viking heritage, but i think theres an article in there about it


This is an interesting sword. It sort of reminded me of this image I found at an auction site some time back. I cannot vouche for it's authenticity and cannot even remember which house was selling it now. Though I recall that they claimed that it was Migration Period. It is impossible to say jus how long the handle is assuming that there were possibly organic pommel components and knowing that Migration swords could be slightly shorter than the later viking styled swords.

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Austin D.G. Hill




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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i really don't think that they used war swords yet even though there is no rock-solid evidence, i personally believe that there were a few hand-and-a-half swords. the vikings were good warriors yet also inventors who were constantly trying to make improvements, so they would have definitely at some point seen the merit in their potential. i do think however that realistically speaking, they would have been all but non existent before, as the story goes, a smith named Ulfberht made a new more efficient way of forging swords. even then they would have certainly been uncommon, but i still think that some warriors would have used them.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think there is a theory that some of the first long handled swords may have been only to better balance a long and heavy blade and still mostly intended to be used as one handers but I would also think that the temptation to use them with two hands might have been irresistible if one lost one's shield or was just completely exhausted during a long battle and could barely lift the sword with one hand ? ( Just speculation here ).

These somewhat long handles might be of the 5" to 7" long variety and useable with two hands if one hand was on the pommel.

So any two handed Viking swords might be just swords with longer than normal handles ?

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