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Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Munitions Grade Japanese Swords.         Reply with quote

I have read from Wikipedia and other sources that Japanese swords from the Muromachi period have a tendency to be more utilitarian and "disposable". I am curious if anyone can tell me more about the swords of this period, since they seem to go against the modern conception of every Japanese sword being "works of art". I am also curious what cheaper swords from other periods would look like (i.e. what the lowest paid man who could still buy a sword could afford

Put more simply, what would munitions grade Japanese swords look like?
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Darryl Aoki





Joined: 12 Oct 2006

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Munitions-grade from what period? The shin-gunto issued by the Imperial Japanese Army to officers and NCOs during World War II were stamped-steel swords worked to look like katana. (If I recall correctly, the NCO-issue shin-gunto didn't even have the hilt wrapped, but had a plastic hilt made to look like it was wrapped.) For a while, the Japanese Army issued Western-style sabers (kyu-gunto), though I'm not sure how those were manufactured. (Since they were standard-issue, I'm guessing they weren't hand-crafted; hand-finished, maybe.)

Not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps somewhat. I'll see if I can find some stuff in some of my books when I get home.
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Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Darryl Aoki wrote:
Munitions-grade from what period? The shin-gunto issued by the Imperial Japanese Army to officers and NCOs during World War II were stamped-steel swords worked to look like katana. (If I recall correctly, the NCO-issue shin-gunto didn't even have the hilt wrapped, but had a plastic hilt made to look like it was wrapped.) For a while, the Japanese Army issued Western-style sabers (kyu-gunto), though I'm not sure how those were manufactured. (Since they were standard-issue, I'm guessing they weren't hand-crafted; hand-finished, maybe.)

Not sure if this answers your question, but hope it helps somewhat. I'll see if I can find some stuff in some of my books when I get home.


Sorry to be so vague, I was referring to traditional Japanese swords. I didn't mean Gunto or any "Modern" swords (e.g. of untraditional design).
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are blades of varying quality made in Japan throughout history. One can make generalizations by province, school, and era, but there are always exceptions in both directions. Nevertheless, the Muromachi period (1392-1573) - particularly the Sengoku Jidai (warring states era, roughly 1467 to the late 1500s) - was marked by a widespread decrease in quality. Cheaper blades made in great quantities during this time are sometimes referred to as kazu-uchi mono as opposed to expensive higher quality custom swords called chumon-uchi. Seki, in Mino province, produced a lot of kazu-uchi mono, as did the Bizen Osafune smiths. Please note that the existence of a term for custom swords indicates that some smiths did maintain high standards, but this period lacks the numerous geniuses that had been seen in the late Kamakura and even Nambokucho eras.

New kinds of blades were seen in this time, such as uchigatana (the predessor of katana and wakizashi, with the focus of the curve nearer the point of the blade), and other blades became more popular than before, such as yari (spears) and yoroi-doshi (armor-piercing daggers). So obviously many kazu-uchi mono are of these types. However, the only definite difference between "munitions-grade" swords and "custom" swords is their artistic quality (which extended to the mountings). They were basic, not particularly pretty. The jihada will usually be pretty rough and loose, and the hamon sort of harsh looking or flat in color and lacking the brilliant activity of some earlier smiths.

Below are some photos of what I would consider representative of mediocre Muromachi-period work. I had trouble finding digital photos of true stinkers since people generally don't seem to be taking many photos of the worst offenders. Big Grin



 Attachment: 33.22 KB
MurT1.jpg


"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
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Last edited by Gabriel Lebec on Mon 03 Dec, 2007 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

(Sorry for double posting - done to place this information below the photos in previous post) -GLL

Oh, here's a great example from a Christie's auction of old Met Museum collection pieces. It's declared outright to be kazu-uchi mono; here's the lot information. I've attached a preview image, but please click here for a full-size version. This blade realized $2040 at auction last year - pretty low for a 4-to-5-century-old antique.



 Attachment: 8.37 KB
kazuuchi.jpg


"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
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Sam N.




Location: Beijing, China
Joined: 03 Mar 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info and the examples, its interesting to see something out of the norm (well, modern perception of norm anyways).
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