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Mark Eskra




Location: Hillsboro Illinois
Joined: 14 Jun 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Sweat         Reply with quote

not much experience with blood, but sweat'll make a good grip on a (calm day) a pain in the arse on a bad one(battle). Blood clots though, so i would think it would make the grip sticky in short order...other fluids though, we would have to talk to someone from ww2 for that.
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Steve Fabert





Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe I have read some accounts from 19th Century British cavalrymen about the problems posed by blood running down the blade of a sabre and onto the grip. I don't recall any authors' names offhand, but I am sure I have read at least one detailed narrative from the battle of Omdurman, where the British fought the Dervishes in Egypt, that describes the problem posed by the extended use of sabres which became increasingly slippery with blood. (I don't think it was Winston Churchill, though he may have commented on the use of sabres by others in describing his own reliance on a Mauser pistol instead.)

This is one reason for the presence of tassels on the guard of these implements, to wick the blood away from the grip. Unless the blade is held point down or kept swinging about at great speed, the blood has nowhere else to go other than down the blade toward the grip. Apparently in actual use it was fairly common for cavalry sabres to be employed in vertical strokes ( rather than thrusts or horizontal strokes) which allowed substantial amounts of blood to travel to the grip area while the point was held upright.
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David Martin




Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Joined: 11 Apr 2005

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ladies and Gentlemen, are you worried about getting your opponent's gore on your grip? Worried about staining those lovely gauntlets? Well, fear no more! I present to you the "Gutter Guard" (patent pending):


 Attachment: 17.84 KB
Gutter Guard.jpg


"When war-gods meet to match their might,
who can tell the bravest born?
Many a hero never made a hole
in another man's breast."

- Sigurd, The Lay of Fafnir
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I seriously don't think this would be much of a problem. There isn't that much spray from a sword hit, so you would pretty much need to be underneath the vicim for substantial mounts of blood to get on your hands.
Additionally, there seems to be a serious overestimation of how many people a fighter might kill during a battle; anything more than three would be exceptional, under normal circumstances. It is quite plausible to not hit anyone for the entire duration of the battle, even if your side is winning...

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Mark Eskra




Location: Hillsboro Illinois
Joined: 14 Jun 2006

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: INTERESTING APPROACH         Reply with quote

in response to last fella's comment...my definition of "winning" is to be the last bunch standing on the field. In order to render an opponent innefective, you don't always have to kill him. this can take time, what with swords locked in ribs, tangled in armor, etc. Wounded folks, though, can bleed a bit, as the excitement of having cold steel rammed into/across ones anatomy is known to cause the heart to pump harder and faster, whether you want it to or not. SOmeone with no arm can still thrash about, pretty much until he is empty.
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2006 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seems like we're wandering with more than a few assumptions. Since I've never been engaged in large group hand to hand combat with edged weapons and an intent to kill, I have no idea how much of an issue gore becomes. The best it seems we can do in this thread is analyze recorded accounts and extrapolate based on other experiences that a may or may not be relevant to the discussion at hand.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Al Muckart




Location: NZ
Joined: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 309

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jun, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
I seriously don't think this would be much of a problem. There isn't that much spray from a sword hit, so you would pretty much need to be underneath the vicim for substantial mounts of blood to get on your hands.


There's always the issue of your *own* blood running down your arm and affecting your grip.

--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Jun, 2006 1:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Al Muckart wrote:

There's always the issue of your *own* blood running down your arm and affecting your grip.


In which case your severed arm muscles should be a lot more detrimental to combat efficiency... Wink

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Al Muckart




Location: NZ
Joined: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 309

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jun, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
Al Muckart wrote:

There's always the issue of your *own* blood running down your arm and affecting your grip.


In which case your severed arm muscles should be a lot more detrimental to combat efficiency... Wink


:-) I dunno, I've had superficial injuries to my forearm which bled more than enough to affect my grip on things. That was without a gambeson soaking it up though.

--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Jun, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
Al Muckart wrote:

There's always the issue of your *own* blood running down your arm and affecting your grip.

In which case your severed arm muscles should be a lot more detrimental to combat efficiency... Wink

Monty Python's Black Knight didn't seem to think so: "...just a flesh wound...", etc., etc. Laughing Out Loud

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Sun 18 Jun, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:

Monty Python's Black Knight didn't seem to think so: "...just a flesh wound...", etc., etc. Laughing Out Loud


In deed. But at that point, the blood on his hand was a bit of a moot point, as it was no longer attached to the rest of his body, preventing him from giving any useful feedback on the question at hand...

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Folkert van Wijk




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun 18 Jun, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
at hand...

Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud
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