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David Black Mastro

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Posts: 279 Location: Central NJ

Tue 13 Sep, 2005 10:08 am

Re: The value of modern combat sports in relation to WMA/HEM

Hello Bill,

Bill Grandy wrote:

Fantastic points, David. I wholeheartedly agree.

Thank you!

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FYI, epee isn't really a derivated of the rapier, though they are related. Nor is it exactly directly evolved from the smallsword. Sharp epees were once used for duelling, so classical epee is in fact simulating epee, not another sword.

I never made such a claim.

In general, I'd say the modern epee has more in common with the smallsword than the rapier. However, I would also have to agree with maestro Gaugler that "the very design of the Italian foil and épée is based on the rapier prototype".

Best,

David

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Bill Grandy

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Posts: 4,194 Location: Northern VA,USA

Tue 13 Sep, 2005 10:18 am

Re: The value of modern combat sports in relation to WMA/HEM

David Black Mastro wrote:

I never made such a claim.

Oh, sorry, I knew you didn't make the claim, it was mentioned earier at least once in the thread, so I brought it back up to make sure everyone was on the same page. "Rapier" is such a hard term to define anyway.

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Sam Barris

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Posts: 630 Location: San Diego, California

Tue 13 Sep, 2005 7:11 pm

Re: The value of modern combat sports in relation to WMA/HEM

Bill Grandy wrote:

A good sport fencer should be able to pick up another weapon and learn it fairly easily. Distance, timing, raw athleticism, it's necessary for any combat art.

I'll certainly buy that. My only point was that they'd have to learn the dynamics of a different weapon as well as a different mindset altogether to be formidable with their new weapon. They'd need to approach it with the proverbial empty cup. And they'd have to stop trying to flick all the time. :)

I also stand by my earlier assertion that an epee fencer would have the easiest time of it. But that might be a personal bias.

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David Black Mastro

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Posts: 279 Location: Central NJ

Wed 14 Sep, 2005 10:21 am

Re: The value of modern combat sports in relation to WMA/HEM

Sam Barris wrote:

Bill Grandy wrote:

A good sport fencer should be able to pick up another weapon and learn it fairly easily. Distance, timing, raw athleticism, it's necessary for any combat art.

The success will naturally vary from fencer to fencer.

We see this in other martial arts and combat sports. Take, for example, NHB/MMA competition. Some really good wrestlers, like Mark Coleman and Kevin Randleman, have not really added all that much to their basic freestyle wrestling repertoire. These men are in tremendous condition, and they are excellent within their chosen field, but their apparent refusal to grow and become true MMAists is apparent at nearly every turn. A man of Randleman's capability, in particular, should not be losing as much as he does.

Then we have other wrestlers, like Randy Couture, at the other end of the spectrum. Couture certainly makes a great use of his Greco-Roman wrestling base, but he has also diligently studied boxing and BJJ/submission grappling--and it shows. Even in his early fights, he would seek to take his opponent's back. And, his recent victory over Mike Van Arsdale (via anaconda choke/gator roll) shows that he is still improving as a fighter.

So it all depends upon the mindset of the competitor, and what they really want to do.

In any case, sport fencers have a solid base of both skills and conditioning, that can translate well to other weapons and arts.

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