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Michal Plezia
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Location: Poland
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These images come probably from the italian encyklopedia. I don't know the exact title of this book, it was found somewhere on the internet.





Quite interesting drawings of the front and rear legs.

I don't know if it is fantasy or not. Other pages of the book often show parts of armour that are known museal pieces, like those italian pauldrons:

www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Felix Kunze




Location: Bonn, Germany
Joined: 28 Feb 2007

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PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are some pictures of the horse armor with legs made by Helmschmied for Duke Maximilian (later Emperor Maximilian) in 1480. All the pictures are contemporary and show the same armor. It was made and used for parade an seems to be the first of its kind in this style.
Source is: Zeitschrift für Historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde 1963.



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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Regarding horse armour Id like to ask how vulnerable horses legs would be lets say in one on one encounter against a halberdier and when charging in formation with other horses against a formation of halberdiers. (with horses being themselves protected by plate armour, at least frontally)

I think its close to impossible to see this in life or death situation from obvious reasons. Happy And the only source of viewing horse vs foot encounter in some form are movies. Basically its allways the same- horse runs, footman steps aside and easily cuts its legs and remains unscratched. (Or Mel Gibsons variety of using american flag to impale horse on Laughing Out Loud ) When I watch such a scenes I have strong inner feeling that something is wrong with this depiction of how horse would behave (especially warhorse)

So would such a form of articulated defence for legs bring some benefits or would a horse be well even without it? Would it react in such a danger independently and try to evade being hurt or does a warhorse only reacts to riders commands and is taugth not to do anything else?

In osprey books for example and also in other modern depictions one picture appears almost regulargy and that is a rider whose brindles were seased by someone and also of a man comming very close to rider and pulling him off his saddle. Would it be that easy or is it depicted maybe because this was adviced approach? Would even good horseman be expected to very propably having his bridles grabbed or letting someone get so close as to grab him and drag him off saddle without much resistance?
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Ben Bouchard




Location: Bar Harbor, ME
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's surprisingly easy to get hauled out of the saddle. A retired Mounted Police officer by the name of Scot Hansen does demos and clinics on self defense for folks who do trail riding etc. Here's a clip of him showing how easy it is to unhorse someone if they aren't paying close attention. http://youtu.be/vZ6rDHyXQgw
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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 07 Aug, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Bouchard wrote:
It's surprisingly easy to get hauled out of the saddle. A retired Mounted Police officer by the name of Scot Hansen does demos and clinics on self defense for folks who do trail riding etc. Here's a clip of him showing how easy it is to unhorse someone if they aren't paying close attention. http://youtu.be/vZ6rDHyXQgw


Very interesting. Do they have some educational videos published for someone interested in horseback self-defence?

What about pulling down someone with a mace in hand on a horse kicking around instead of unarmed woman? Happy
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug, 2011 11:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jaroslav Kravcak wrote:
Basically its allways the same- horse runs, footman steps aside and easily cuts its legs and remains unscratched. (Or Mel Gibsons variety of using american flag to impale horse on Laughing Out Loud ) When I watch such a scenes I have strong inner feeling that something is wrong with this depiction of how horse would behave (especially warhorse)


This technique of hewing the horse's legs is known as "houghing," and Braveheart probably included it as some sort as really far-out extrapolation of anecdotes about 17th- or 18th-century Highlanders doing this against lone horsemen or small, isolated cavalry patrols that tried to pursue them over ground that wasn't exactly cavalry-friendly. There doesn't seem to be any documentation to support the use of this technique in the Middle Ages, of course. And, regardless of the period, any attempt to do this against horsemen in formation would have been suicidal.
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Ben Bouchard




Location: Bar Harbor, ME
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

Posts: 47

PostPosted: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jaroslav Kravcak wrote:
Ben Bouchard wrote:
It's surprisingly easy to get hauled out of the saddle. A retired Mounted Police officer by the name of Scot Hansen does demos and clinics on self defense for folks who do trail riding etc. Here's a clip of him showing how easy it is to unhorse someone if they aren't paying close attention. http://youtu.be/vZ6rDHyXQgw


Very interesting. Do they have some educational videos published for someone interested in horseback self-defence?

What about pulling down someone with a mace in hand on a horse kicking around instead of unarmed woman? Happy


Yup! He does have videos available at his site, www.horsethink.com He teaches a lot of defensive techniques that you yourself can do to resist an assailant, as well as ways to use the horse to push them aside. I you had a mace you could just cave the guy's face in. Now that you mention it, it would be pretty easy to attach a mace to the saddle... Razz
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Jaroslav Kravcak




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 22 Apr 2006

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Bouchard wrote:
Jaroslav Kravcak wrote:
Ben Bouchard wrote:
It's surprisingly easy to get hauled out of the saddle. A retired Mounted Police officer by the name of Scot Hansen does demos and clinics on self defense for folks who do trail riding etc. Here's a clip of him showing how easy it is to unhorse someone if they aren't paying close attention. http://youtu.be/vZ6rDHyXQgw


Very interesting. Do they have some educational videos published for someone interested in horseback self-defence?

What about pulling down someone with a mace in hand on a horse kicking around instead of unarmed woman? Happy


Yup! He does have videos available at his site, www.horsethink.com He teaches a lot of defensive techniques that you yourself can do to resist an assailant, as well as ways to use the horse to push them aside. I you had a mace you could just cave the guy's face in. Now that you mention it, it would be pretty easy to attach a mace to the saddle... Razz


Its less suspicious than longsword. Laughing Out Loud

So much interesting reading, thank you for the side.
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David Gaál




Location: Hungary
Joined: 26 Mar 2011

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have found same examples it's form the record of european armour and arms through seven centuries

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David Gaál




Location: Hungary
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Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How can I attach pictures?
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T. Arndt




Location: La Crosse, WI
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Gaál wrote:
How can I attach pictures?


Give this a read: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/faq.php?mode=attach

If the image is already hosted on the Internet (your site, this site, or a site that allows linking), then you can read how to reference one of those images here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/faq.php?mode=bbcode

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