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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Bevor liners? Reply to topic
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Bevor liners?         Reply with quote

Does anyone have any information about whether or not bevors were lined? Even better, does anyone have any photos of the inside of bevors? Am making a liner for my sallet currently, so any help would be appreciated.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can't help you with the bevor question, Bill, but I sure as heck would appreciate seeing what you do for the sallet! Eventually, there's a Gothic harness in my future... it'll be very useful info.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
Can't help you with the bevor question, Bill, but I sure as heck would appreciate seeing what you do for the sallet! Eventually, there's a Gothic harness in my future... it'll be very useful info.


Sure, I can post pictures as I do it. I've only bought the material so far. I'm not going for 100% historical accuracy (I'm going to machine stitch it, for example), but I want to match the general historical feel and functionality. I'm also going to use store-bought cotton batting as my stuffing. I originally intended to use linen for the shell, but the local fabric store didn't have any undyed, unbleached stuff, so I went with muslin instead.

I basically doing the same thing that Steve Sheldon did in this tutorial:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/photo_gallery/he..._liner.htm
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's pretty sweet, Bill... I have a pigface that I need to do that same deal with, so will probably follow your lead when I get around to it. My own projects are drifting into the distance as my shop time gets taken up with other things. It's cool, though... helps fund the habit. Definitely interested in hearing how it goes, and any pitfalls you encounter, pearls of wisdom, too.

Thinking on the bevor, if it's integrated with the rest of the harness (breast and back plates, particularly), I wouldn't think it would need much padding as it pretty much locks in and would be held away by the rest of the metal. Also, especially if it's articulated and the chin drops, you couldn't interfere with that action...

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

IIRC, the word bevor is somehow related to the French term for "to slobber". I'm wondering if, once the liner, fills with sweat, spit, blood, tears, etc., the evaporation would help cool the wearer's face. Or would it just be like trying to fight with your face in a bus station toilet....
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Or would it just be like trying to fight with your face in a bus station toilet....


This sounds the more reasonable of the two, unfortunately... Worried

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
IIRC, the word bevor is somehow related to the French term for "to slobber". I'm wondering if, once the liner, fills with sweat, spit, blood, tears, etc., the evaporation would help cool the wearer's face. Or would it just be like trying to fight with your face in a bus station toilet....


Wow, that's unfortunately very enlightening, Sean...

Happy

I've seen modern repros that have the liner, and I didn't know if it was accurate or not. I always felt that it seemed unnecessary because the bevor is supported by the chest, so any impact goes there and not to the face... but Sean, you gave me something to think about. Something gross. Razz
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
That's pretty sweet, Bill... I have a pigface that I need to do that same deal with, so will probably follow your lead when I get around to it. My own projects are drifting into the distance as my shop time gets taken up with other things. It's cool, though... helps fund the habit. Definitely interested in hearing how it goes, and any pitfalls you encounter, pearls of wisdom, too.


I hear you! I bought this helmet second hand about two months ago and just haven't had time to line it. I still need to strap it and the bevor as well, which currently I don't have the tools for. That's another one for the future. In the mean time, my MRL sallet will do for demonstration purposes.

The helm's a Patrick Thaden piece that I was lucky enough to buy off a guy who bought it for both reenactment and SCA, but then changed to a different century persona. It's not the epitome of the work I've seen of Thaden, but it's still pretty nice. Heat treated, too. And the guy I bought it from started to make a blue foam liner that he never glued in, so I already have a template to make my own cloth one. Saves me a step! Happy

Quote:
Thinking on the bevor, if it's integrated with the rest of the harness (breast and back plates, particularly), I wouldn't think it would need much padding as it pretty much locks in and would be held away by the rest of the metal. Also, especially if it's articulated and the chin drops, you couldn't interfere with that action...


I'd thought so as well, and it is indeed an articulated bevor, so I figured that part I'd leave as is. Still, wanted to see if anyone had any information, as most books focus on the outsides of the helmet and not the insides.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aha!


 Attachment: 16.57 KB
linedbevor.jpg

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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Period piece or reproduction?

It appears that the yoke is not padded - makes sense like we were thinking - it locks in against the breast plate. The articulated bevor is, but only attached at the top and bottom as to collapse when the chin is dropped down.

Makes sense, I suppose... keep you from banging your chin.

The bevor is pretty hot anyway, as is the sallet when the visor is down... but this small bit of padding isn't going to block breathes or anything, so I doubt it would make much of a difference... save possibly the petri-dish effect. Worried

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
Period piece or reproduction?


Supposedly period piece, though I don't know where from. Was posted by someone on Arador.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Supposedly period piece, though I don't know where from. Was posted by someone on Arador.


Either way, it seems a reasonable, rather unobtrusive method. If you are not going for a truly authentic solution here, you might consider using screw posts instead of rivets to install this - makes the hygiene issue disappear. Love the removable bib on my fencing helm for this particular reason...

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:
Bill Grandy wrote:
Supposedly period piece, though I don't know where from. Was posted by someone on Arador.


Either way, it seems a reasonable, rather unobtrusive method. If you are not going for a truly authentic solution here, you might consider using screw posts instead of rivets to install this - makes the hygiene issue disappear. Love the removable bib on my fencing helm for this particular reason...


Hmmm... that's an interesting idea... if I wanted to get truly blasphemous, I could install some industrial strength velcro, too, for that matter... I'll have to think about this, though. I don't know if I want to stray that far from historical parameters or not.

You know those snap in bibs on fencing masks are illegal for competition these days, right? I haven't used one in forever. I've just long gotten used to my mask being disgusting. Happy
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron / Bill;

Throw in fried chicken wings inside your fencing mask and you can have a snack while you fence and a good excuse for drooling. Now that's as disgusting as I can imagine at the moment. ( Give me time and I could imagine worse. )

Sorry, being EVIL here Evil Razz Laughing Out Loud

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Aaron / Bill;

Throw in fried chicken wings inside your fencing mask and you can have a snack while you fence and a good excuse for drooling. Now that's as disgusting as I can imagine at the moment. ( Give me time and I could imagine worse. )

Sorry, being EVIL here Evil Razz Laughing Out Loud


Would you believe that a bever is "a light lunch eaten between regular meals"?
It's true. Look it up. Laughing Out Loud

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2005 2:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
You know those snap in bibs on fencing masks are illegal for competition these days, right? I haven't used one in forever. I've just long gotten used to my mask being disgusting. Happy


Yup. Mine's just a cotton liner that velcros in on the inside of my bib. Wash it out after a day or two's play... not too bad.

You most certainly could put the velcro in. I personally wouldn't...

Here's an additional thought. You might consider a wire frame inside the top edge of the liner, though, to hold it's shape against the inside of the bevor - a piece of 14 or 16 copper would be simple enough to stick in there. That, and some screw posts with a banged up end on the outside of the bevor would still give a pretty convincing appearance, keep it from suffocating or gassing you, and be a snap to pop in there.


Oh, and Sean, Jean... that's messed up, guys... If I did stuff food in my fencing mask, would it make it a "Bever-cage"?

-Aaron Schnatterly
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