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Aaron Schnatterly
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 Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 8:42 am Post subject: Engraving style on the Vinland |
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I've been researching the different periods of Viking engravings, and have a question regarding those found on the Albion Vinland.
I feel it could fit into two different styles - Borre and Jelling. I was hoping for clarification, and, better yet, additional examples of the style.
Here are the details of each:
The identifying elements of the Borre style include:
- 875-950 AD
- Gripping beasts refined from Broa/Oseberg. The animals in Borre ornament are a mixture of ribbon-shaped animals and gripping beasts. These animals typically have polygonal hips, four legs, a ribbon body that is often knotted in a circular design, and a triangular, mask-like head shown face-on to the viewer, with bulging eyes and big ears. Animal bodies often a grooved or hatched pattern on the body, combined with smooth, polished heads and legs.
- Knotwork becomes very important in the Borre style, with not only animals showing knotted ribbon-like bodies, but also knotted ribbons by themselves, or in plant motifs (acanthus and vine designs) that are thought to have been copied from imported Frankish trefoil and tongue-shaped mounts ca. 900. Knots are often in a pattern heralds term a "Stafford knot," which most people will recognize as a "pretzel knot."
- Another knotted motif that is a hallmark of the Borre style is the ring-chain pattern. This is a knotted pattern made up of a double ribbon plait forming a symmetrical interlace. Each intersection is bound by a circle which surrounds a hollow-sided lozenge. This pattern is perhaps best-known from the carved stone crosses on the Isle of Man: it is one of the most common motifs found on the Manx crosses, and often referred to as "Gaut's ring-chain" from the heavy use of this motif on a cross carved by Gaut Björnsson. In many instances a ring-chain design will end in stylized animal masks.
The identifying elements of the Jelling style include:
- 880-1000 AD
- Elongated, S-shaped animals, shown in profile, diagonally symmetrical and intertwined, with ribbon-like bodies without hips. Gripping beasts are not normally found (except in hybrid Borre-Jelling pieces). The bodies are frequently decorated with a hatch infill pattern, and are usually larger that the bodies of Borre animals.
- Some Jelling animals, most commonly on metalwork, have ribbon-shaped bodies with slits in the body, a motif which is thought to be a revival of Broa style ornament.
- Both types of animals often have open jaws and a folded upper lip, a long "pigtail" on the head, and small spiral hip joints.
- The Jelling style was introduced by Scandinavians into Britain and was used extensively by Anglo-Scandinavian carvers in Yorkshire.
(info from The Viking Answer Lady www.vikinganswerlady.com/wood.htm)
As the Borre and Jelling styles overlapped, there were hybrid pieces - engravings that incorporated elements of both. I'm leaning towards something like this for the tooling of the baldric for my scabbard.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Engraving style on the Vinland |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | I've been researching the different periods of Viking engravings, and have a question regarding those found on the Albion Vinland.
...additional examples of the style.
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Hi Aaron...
Here are a few similar patterns on period pieces.
ks
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from Vikings: North Atlantic Saga" ed. William Fitzhugh and Elisabeth Ward
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from Ian Peirce "Swords of the Viking Age"
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Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 21 May, 2005 6:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Nice pics, Kirk, thanks!
If I were a betting guy, I'd say the first is an example of Borre, the second, Jelling, and the third is Mammen. All three pics are better than most I have been able to access with my slow network offshore and my notably ABSENT library. I'd love to see some examples of animals - I have a larger area to play with on a 1 3/4 inch wide baldric. 
It's a shame that time and nature take such a toll on pieces like these. As beautiful as they are now, can you imagine what they were like then?
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
...I'd love to see some examples of animals - I have a larger area to play with on a 1 3/4 inch wide baldric.
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Hey Aaron...
Here are a few knotted patterns with animal head terminals.
ks
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from James Graham-Campbell “Viking Artefacts: A Select Catalogue” (London 1980)
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Viking Scabbard (Bog Find)
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 21 May, 2005 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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BINGO!
Kirk, the second one is EXACTLY what I needed - great example of Jelling or Borre/Jelling hybrid style work, sweet dragons, nice knotwork. I think I can pull something like that off.
What was your source for these?
Big-time thanks! Now, to find a little peace and quiet to start this little project. Can you believe it? They actually expect me to work while I'm at work. 
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Kirk,
Where did you get the photo of the bog found viking scabbard? That's very neat!
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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William C Champlin
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| Posted: Fri 20 May, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: Viking Sword Furniture |
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Here's my cheap viking sword with it's slightly more expensive guard and pommel. Raymond's Quiet Press sells these.W
Attachment: 39.75 KB
Attachment: 40.79 KB
tweetchris
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | Kirk,
Where did you get the photo of the bog found viking scabbard? That's very neat! |
 I agree, news for me to, so fresh just like new, and the first thing thats hit me is that word "wurmbunt", is it made of wood? 
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Viking Sword Furniture |
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| William C Champlin wrote: | | Here's my cheap viking sword with it's slightly more expensive guard and pommel. Raymond's Quiet Press sells these.W |
Looks quite similar to the rubbing/sketch Kirk posted that I liked so much. This gives me a 3-D perspective on the overs and unders. I appreciate it!
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Jean Le-Palud
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi all,
Albion's "Walkyria" coming next winter seems designed after this one...
I'm also very curious to learn more about the bog found scabbard, I thought there was not any remaining piece of a real viking scabbard. Maybe I'll try to make a future scabbard with no leather covering and carved wood...
Hey Aaron, you're teasing me ! (joking). I thought I was a perfectionnist but I stand far away behind you, I look foreward to seeing your completed scabbard and its baldric. How do you intend to make the engravings ?
My own scabbard is waiting for the chape, and meanwhile I'm making a wooden model of the "Oseberg" viking ship.
Thank you Kirk for the fine pictures.
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Shane Allee
Industry Professional
Location: South Bend, IN Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 506
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Are we even sure the scabbard is Viking and not earlier? I recall seeing similar carved wood scabbards with the serpents from either Valsgärde or Vendel graves.
Shane
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | | Albion's "Walkyria" coming next winter seems designed after this one... |
D'OH! I KNEW I had seen that somewhere before... Yup, and reading though the description of that piece, the engravings are a century later - the Urnes period. Stepping back away from it, I can see the sweeping figure-eights indicative of the period. Crap... Back to square 1, but a lot more information to go on, so all is not lost.  Hey... I never claimed to be an art expert...
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | | I'm also very curious to learn more about the bog found scabbard, I thought there was not any remaining piece of a real viking scabbard. Maybe I'll try to make a future scabbard with no leather covering and carved wood... |
I'm also curious about the bog-found scabbard, but have too many other projects going on at the moment to put forth any effort in researching it... for now, anyway.
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | | Hey Aaron, you're teasing me ! (joking). I thought I was a perfectionnist but I stand far away behind you, I look foreward to seeing your completed scabbard and its baldric. How do you intend to make the engravings ? |
I'm generally only this anal-retentive about projects like this. I'm not that difficult to deal with in the rest of my life... I just want the pieces to feel right together. I'm concerned that by mixing different styles of Viking art, it will clash, giving an uncomfortable feeling, even to the novice, and be painful to the expert. Is it going into the Smithsonian? No. Extremely unlikely it will be the topic of an art history class, either. It's going to be a prized piece in my personal collection, though... not to mention it's already been a hell of a lot of work, and this isn't going to be a small task either. I plan to actually hand tool the leather. I've seen a friend do a good bit of tooling in the not-so-recent past, and, if I recall correctly, the process is generally like this:
- Design the piece. I'll draw out the designs 1:1 scale on paper, make a few photocopies.
- Dampen the leather. Not soak, dampen.
- Trace out the design. There are a number of ways I could do this, but not many available to me this next couple of weeks. I will probably lay the paper out positioned where I need it to be on the leather, with a piece of plastic wrap between it and the damp leather, then trace it out with a fine point pen. This will slightly indent the surface of the leather, thereby leaving my pattern, without marking up or staining the leather.
- Cut along the pattern. I would prefer a swivel knife, but all I have here in the office is a scalpel. That'll have to do - they're designed to cut flesh, afterall, but they do dull quickly. The cuts will be approx. 1/4 to 1/2 the thickness of the leather, depending on what's going on in the pattern.
- Bevel the edges of the raised parts. I hope this will generate a nice 3-D effect. I'll have to do the same, to a lesser degree, where the knot pieces cross under other pieces.
- Depress the low areas with a textured stamp. I'll have to make this tool from something...
- Dress the edges, so they are all nice and pretty
- Dye the piece, and seal it.
Hopefully, that kind-of answered your questions. I hope to be able to locate a camera to take in-progress pics. If not, well... there will be some of the finished product.
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | | My own scabbard is waiting for the chape, and meanwhile I'm making a wooden model of the "Oseberg" viking ship. |
Looking forward to seeing your finished peice. The Oseberg ship, eh? Are you doing this from a model kit, or from scratch? I've always been impressed by that ship!
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I have edited the earlier posts to include picture citations where I had them.
Some of the pictures I either never had or lost the source info.
I am afraid that is the case with the scabbard. I am not sure that it is from the Viking Age. I posted it in response to Aaron's desire to see period pieces with this form of decoration.
Because of the interest in this picture I have tried to relocate it. But have had no luck... sorry.
I believe it came from one of these sites... near the end of their catalogues.
http://www.geheugenvannederland.nl/gvnNL/hand...anguage/en
http://www.historiska.se/
http://www.guderoggrave.dk/
http://www.frojel.com/Galleries/GotlandIndex.html
These sites are well worth the search (especially if you know hte language)... Lots of interesting finds. If anyone comes across the picture let me know where you found it.
thanks
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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 That's happened me all time to, Kirk
i forget everything sometimes when i see some stuff, do you still have the filename untouch?
oh! i just find this one here
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | That's happened me all time to, Kirk
i forget everything sometimes when i see some stuff, do you still have the filename untouch?
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Hi Patrik...
When I copied the image of this scabbard it was just for the design element... At that time (several years ago) I was not interested in scabbards at all and I was not collecting source data. I was using the pictures only for sword design. Since I have been posting on the forums I have been trying to record source info. However this is an old one. The image has been enhanced in photoshop and so I have copied over the original filename... sorry.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
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thanks Kirk! for let us know, i have saved this one now and hope we will find the old one some time.
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Jean Le-Palud
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Maybe something interesting on this site
www.vikingart.com
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Some quite nice examples - thanks, Jean!
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Sat 21 May, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Examples of the Borre style |
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I found that the Manx Crosses on the Isle of Man are all examples of the Borre style... Looking at them compared to the description I posted above clarified what a lot of those statements meant.
Here are is one example in the form of a colored-in rendition done by Mrs. Maureen Costain Richards, found on www.isle-of-man.com - the colors help visualize where the knots' weaves go, and helped me "feel" the flow.
This is the "Kirk Michael Dragon" Cross
Triangular heads with bulging eyes, double ribbon design, ring chains, grooved pattern on the body, with smooth heads and legs.
All of the Viking styles are quite interesting, and I have learned quite a lot through this little exploration exercise. I personally find the Jelling, Mammen, and Urnes styles a bit more aesthetically and technically appealing, but I am limited to Borre or Borre/Jelling hybrid, so that's where I'll try to stay for this particular project. If I can locate a functioning scanner and/or a camera out here, I'll continue the Vinland Scabbard Project thread with sketches and the leatherwork.
That's not to say that I am shutting down this thread...
-Aaron Schnatterly
_______________
Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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