[Dan Kary]

Hi everybody I've got a question about Mamluk (or Ottoman) tabar axes (in particular, the metal shafted ones). These had hollow handles, right? I'm guessing they did, because there would surely have been a weight issue with a sold handle.

Of course, I can't tell just from pictures, and I can't find much information about this.

I found one with dimensions, but not weight: https://islamicart.museumwnf.org/database_item.php?id=object;EPM;at;Mus22;20;en.

Here's a full image with a couple others: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/39125090503249626/

Here's a image of the chipped one: https://br.ifunny.co/picture/a-plain-tabar-with-a-severely-chipped-blade-mamluke-late-j4om4Lml8

The most helpful clue is the one in the met: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24417
It has all the specs, including weight. But I'm not really good at estimating these things. I'm hoping somebody with more experience handling these sorts of things could extrapolate base on weight and dimensions.

Maybe somebody here knows? Thanks!

[Dan Kary]

I don't know if it's good form to reply to your own post before anybody had the chance but I heard the perspective from somebody who makes Turkish swords. He said that it would be heavy, but the forces of impacts on this would probably necessitate a solid handle. The handle is pretty long...I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

[Ryan S.]

I know that maces with steel shafts tend to be hollow. I don’t know why the Turkish axes would need to be stronger. The ax at the Met weighs three pounds, which is on the heavy side for a weapon, and weighs a pound more than the German mace made by Windlass, but the handle is also 12 inches longer.

[Dan Kary]

Thanks for the reply Ryan. I thought that about maces too - which is another reason why I assumed that about steel shafted weapons in general. I don't think that's universal though is it? I know Tod's made a solid steel shafted mace but that might be because it is shorter and thinner than some others? I don't know...

[Dan Kary]

Well I think maybe the mystery might be solved...I remembered Tod made a video that talked about this so I went back to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tvK7rwDJMY&list=WL&index=3

Maybe? Some of the ones with the larger shaft were hollow in a sense, in that they were made in sheet, but they were filled with a wood core. That keeps the strength up and the weight down. I suspect that's the case with any similar short pole arms like axes.

Matt Easton has another video that talks about some are just hollow and they are sealed up and there is no wood in them, so there probably was never wood in them. He talks about that here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NQqbgNSPTM&list=WL&index=2

So maybe hollow was strong enough? I'm not sure, because his mace shaft got dented pretty bad. The braised seam makes it weak. I'm guessing then, that you'd either have to have pretty thick walls (at which point, maybe you might as well go with a solid shaft?), or have a wood core, as Tod suggests.