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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: A & A Black Prince         Reply with quote

Starting to to think about getting the A & A Black Prince, since I E-mailed Craig for more information about it I am almost DOOOOOOMED Wink to get one. ( When I get to the stage of E-mailing the maker I'm usually 90% sold on getting it. )

I'm being slowed down by wondering what the Albion Agincourt will look like when in production.

On the A & A site the point of the sword looks a little rounded rather than needle pointed: This might be a good thing as a small spatulate or elliptical point should be as effective getting through chinks in armour as a needle sharp sword but not as prone to have an overfine point breaking of. ( At least that is my best guess,. )

It is also possible that the one shown on the site has a slightly rounded point for safety reasons and if it was intended for sparring and may be unsharpened.

Anyway, this is in part the questions I've asked Craig.

So, any feedback from people who own or have handled this sword would help me decide when and if I " weaken " and burn another hole in my bank account. Eek! Laughing Out Loud

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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like my Black Prince from A&A very much. While not a needle point, the diamond geometry carries right throuh to the point. Your post prompted me to check. At the final radius to the point, my blade is about half an inch wide and the linear length of the point is about the same half an inch or a little more. What you end up with is a good sturdy point.

I have driven this point through a couple of inches of phone book.

A&A ships their swords sharp, by default, and every example I have seen (I own two and have handled a few others) has had a terrific sword edge with no secondary bevel.

The Albion line up looks very nice and I would have had a tougher choice to make, the few years ago when I bought mine.

The A&A Black Prince is a good stout example of a XVA with lots of rigidity and still capable of strong shearing cuts (closer to the hilt than you would normally aim with a XII or XIII type). Mine has cut mats and sundry other light targets but it is more of a thrust biased do-all than some of the other typologies.

Mine has bronze and the older style handle, hence the specs are a wee bit different than current production but I like it a lot.

I'll see if I can dredge up a picture but Nathan's (in another thread) shows it quite nicely with the slimmer early Albion model.

Here with the A&A GBS for scale.
Forgive the assualt camera resolution. They would look neat blued but that's all reflection.



Don't look too close, they both could use a polish.


Cheers

GC
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr, 2005 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen;

Thanks for the minie review: That type of point appeals to my tendancy to like stuff overbuilt or railroad engineered.
( But not exagerated to the point of making a good design bad ! )

Oh, the blue appearance is due to low lighting or a " lack " of reflections rather than too much, but I understand what you meant Laughing Out Loud

I glad I asked Craig for an update on this swords' construction as he regularely improves his product as he learns more about them: He just doesn't brag about it enough in my opinion. Big Grin ( I look forward to his reply to my E-Mail. )

So, you didn't help me save money as I am now CLOSER to deciding to buy this one Wink Laughing Out Loud

Jokes aside, thanks again.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd say that the older model I handled was an EXCELLENT sword of the type. Handled much better then I thought it was and was very attractive in the bargain. I'm afraid I can't remember much about the tip though... Sad
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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,
I got my A&A Black Prince about a year ago. Definitely one of my faves. The grip has two subtle ribs going across it, as to replicate the old grip on the original before it was thrown out. Since I have rather large hands, half of my guide-hand (left) covers the pommel so when wielding it, I'm actually better off grasping the pommel with my other hand (which is quite comfortable).

I've always described the Black Prince as the 'quintessential XVa.' It really comes alive in your hand. It's emphasis is obviously in thrusting, but it still cuts very well; A&A's version has a sharp edge. If you like swords that excel in thrusting, recovering, and even good for half-swording (a technique that I do a lot) you can't go wrong with the Black Prince. There's no type XVa sword I admire more (how sad that the original is in such bad shape). -Ted

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well: It's done I made the Order official. ( Stupid E-Mail is not delivering my message Mad I wonder if it's a problem at my end or at Craig's ? Anyway I sent him a back-up reply using the P.M. feature here. )

Gettin an error message from this site ????? From: MAILER-DAEMON@visi.com (Mail Delivery System) Is this legitimate or some sort of spam or scam or virus.

Anybody knows what this actually means:

Final-Recipient: rfc822; arms@visi.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; maildir delivery failed: error writing message:
Disc quota exceeded

( Some sort of network failure ? I wasn't sending a large graphic intensive message ! ) ( Oh, I use a MAC powerbook with Virus protection updated daily and I never get spam, so far at least, or viruses. )

Sorry for the OFF- Topic detour

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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jean,

You might want to try aa@armor.com or the phone numbers listed on the contact page at the site. www.arms-n-armor.com

Cheers

GC
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 6:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Go ahead and read the bounce message. It tells you what the problem is: "Disc quota exceeded". The mailbox is full.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen;

Thanks, just used a search and found that this is a legit site for AOL that deals with communication glitches.

From the error message it seem probable that A & A's has run out of room and need to delete some messages to make room for new messages.

I could be wrong about this but I will P.M. Craig so that he can check for any problems at his end.
( Not an expert about this stuff. )

Anyway, the important thing is to get back to the subject of the BLACK PRINCE sword.
Although I have made up my mind to buy it I would still welcome more discussion about it, thanks Big Grin

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Glen;

Thanks, just used a search and found that this is a legit site for AOL that deals with communication glitches.

From the error message it seem probable that A & A's has run out of room and need to delete some messages to make room for new messages.

I could be wrong about this but I will P.M. Craig so that he can check for any problems at his end.
( Not an expert about this stuff. )

Anyway, the important thing is to get back to the subject of the BLACK PRINCE sword.
Although I have made up my mind to buy it I would still welcome more discussion about it, thanks Big Grin


Congratulations!

Does anyone know where the original now resides? I was under the impression that it was part of Oakeshott's collection?

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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 6:34 am    Post subject: BP now         Reply with quote

Hello Russ

Sadly it is not in the Oakeshott Collection, the piece is now in the private market and I am unaware of the exact collector who currently holds it. My guess is it is somewhere in the UK.

Best
Craig
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Michael P Smith





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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 6:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You'd think the UK government would be trying to get it back.... I sure would like to see it back at Canterbury, where it belongs.

Mike
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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael P Smith wrote:
You'd think the UK government would be trying to get it back.... I sure would like to see it back at Canterbury, where it belongs.

Mike


Oakeshott said in Records that he actually did try to give it back to Canterbury Cathedral but for some reason they declined it. Question I'm not entirely sure why, though I can come up with some reasonable guesses. Speaking of which, a sword that definitely belongs in Britain (preferably a museum for all to see), is the one that belonged to King Edward III. Last I read, that one is in a private collection in Germany somewhere. -Ted

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that Canterbury was unconvinced that it was really Edward of Woodstock's sword. Oakeshott made a good case that it was indeed his sword, but it wasn't 100% proof.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward Hitchens wrote:
Michael P Smith wrote:
You'd think the UK government would be trying to get it back.... I sure would like to see it back at Canterbury, where it belongs.

Mike


Oakeshott said in Records that he actually did try to give it back to Canterbury Cathedral but for some reason they declined it. Question I'm not entirely sure why, though I can come up with some reasonable guesses. Speaking of which, a sword that definitely belongs in Britain (preferably a museum for all to see), is the one that belonged to King Edward III. Last I read, that one is in a private collection in Germany somewhere. -Ted


I think that there was a huge arguement about the provenance of that sword as well. If I recall correctly it had passed through the hands of an expert faker/forger and was therefore suspect. It was sold away before the real provenance was proven.

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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: BP now         Reply with quote

Craig Johnson wrote:
Hello Russ

Sadly it is not in the Oakeshott Collection, the piece is now in the private market and I am unaware of the exact collector who currently holds it. My guess is it is somewhere in the UK.

Best
Craig


That's interesting Craig, I know that a good many of your pieces are reproduced from items in the Wallace Collection that you were able to study first hand. Were you able to study that particular sword first hand?

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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: BP now         Reply with quote

Russ Ellis wrote:
...That's interesting Craig, I know that a good many of your pieces are reproduced from items in the Wallace Collection that you were able to study first hand. Were you able to study that particular sword first hand?

Hey, Russ. As you know, I'm not Craig, but the A&A website says of their Black Prince Replica,
"We were fortunately able to take direct measurements of this sword and have gone back to our original research materials to upgrade our replica, increasing accuracy to the original in the furniture, grip and the blade."
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: BP now         Reply with quote

Steve Grisetti wrote:
Russ Ellis wrote:
...That's interesting Craig, I know that a good many of your pieces are reproduced from items in the Wallace Collection that you were able to study first hand. Were you able to study that particular sword first hand?

Hey, Russ. As you know, I'm not Craig, but the A&A website says of their Black Prince Replica,
"We were fortunately able to take direct measurements of this sword and have gone back to our original research materials to upgrade our replica, increasing accuracy to the original in the furniture, grip and the blade."


Hmmm so it does... that would imply I guess that the guys at A&A got their hands on it when it was part of Oakeshott's collection? I wonder why he sold it...

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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2005 6:46 pm    Post subject: Collectors         Reply with quote

Hey Russ

The reason is as simple as he had it in his possession for a long while and eventually decided to pass it on and acquire new pieces. The collector that needs to control expenditure almost always use this methodology to adjust their collections over the years. Ewart always was aware that he was only a temporary guardian for these pieces that they would continue on and that to try to hold on to something forever was futile. Much better to care, nurture and learn then make sure they continue on to a good home.

The first time I met Ewart and Sybil he had an afternoon of tea and whiskey and great discussions. I spent the majority of the day with the sword laying in my lap and it really was one of the first pieces I was able to handle and admire in great detail and time. Pretty good day all and all
Happy

Best
Craig
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig:

Well, I'm even happier that I ordered one: Craig that story makes getting this reproduction of this sword seem even more like getting a piece of history, both the history of the Black Prince sword and of a great scholar and gentleman who shared his knowledge and love of swords with you.

And not least getting a really nice sword Big Grin

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