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Ahmad Abdel




Location: Jordan
Joined: 29 Oct 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: 15th century turban helmet weight and thickness.         Reply with quote

hello ,this is the first time for me to post a topic ,i have a question
how thick is the steel in a15th century turban helmet? they vary in sizes ,but can they be as thick as 2.5mm? and how heavy would it be? also if my post is kind of bad please tell me since i'm new and i want to learn from you.[/img]

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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 588

PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Ahmad,

usually when people measure old helmets they find that the thickness is different in different places, so its easier to talk about weight than thickness. Museum collection databases like the Metropolitan Museum of Art can be a good place to search for information.

Met 04.3.214 weighs 1052 g
Royal Armouries Object XXVIA.125 weighs 1150 g

Royal Armouries Object XXVIA.332 weighs 1415 g
Met 04.3.461 weighs 1496 g

Met 04.3.215 weighs 1928 g

The steel part of the turban helmets in those two museums seem to weigh somewhere between 1 kg and 2 kg, depending on whether the wearer wanted a heavy strong helmet or a light weaker helmet and whether it is a big tall helmet or a short close-fitting helmet.

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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2020 1:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean, I wish I had more to add to this topic other than this... what an excellent response from you. Thank you for teaching me something here!
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Ahmad Abdel




Location: Jordan
Joined: 29 Oct 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Sean, do you think that some of of these helmets were more heavy or more lighter considering the fact only few are known about?
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 588

PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ahmad Abdel wrote:
Thank you Sean, do you think that some of of these helmets were more heavy or more lighter considering the fact only few are known about?

Hi Ahmad,

that is a similar range of weights to western European helmets for similar types of soldier. But if someone weighed turban helmets in Istanbul and maybe Damascus or Cairo, they might find different things. I do not have any books on Ottoman, Safavid, and Mamluk helmets and I don't know Turkish or Arabic.

Remember that the mail / iron rings to protect the face and neck and the padded lining will make it heavier.

www.bookandsword.com
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,486

PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2020 11:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Manning wrote:
Ahmad Abdel wrote:
Thank you Sean, do you think that some of of these helmets were more heavy or more lighter considering the fact only few are known about?

Hi Ahmad,

that is a similar range of weights to western European helmets for similar types of soldier. But if someone weighed turban helmets in Istanbul and maybe Damascus or Cairo, they might find different things. I do not have any books on Ottoman, Safavid, and Mamluk helmets and I don't know Turkish or Arabic.

Remember that the mail / iron rings to protect the face and neck and the padded lining will make it heavier.
a long mail curtain can often add a good 50% to the weight at times depending on the rings and the length of the curtain
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Ahmad Abdel




Location: Jordan
Joined: 29 Oct 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri 13 Nov, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, basically turbans weigh as much as most of the european helmets?
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 588

PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov, 2020 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ahmad Abdel wrote:
So, basically turbans weigh as much as most of the european helmets?

In Europe you find some very heavy helmets for special purposes: getting bashed in the head with two-handed hammers and axes, or riding straight at someone who is riding straight at them with a heavy lance supported by a graper (ring) on the lance pushing against an arrest (hook) on the breastplate. The graper and arrest stop the lance from sliding back when it hits something hard. Here is a helmet from Tirol which weighs 7 kg.

But 1 to 2 kg is a pretty common weight range for a helmet that protects the upper part of the head but not the face and is worn to war in Europe in the 14th-15th-16th century. People who will be fighting for fun usually choose heavier protection than soldiers in the field, because they do not have to wear it all day for days at a time. That is why the HEMA fighters dress in plastic armour and the BOTN / IMCF / HMB fighters make their armour heavier and add extra parts.

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