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Michael F.




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Agincourt vs. Crecy         Reply with quote

I'm having a really hard time choosing an Albion sword. It's come down to the Crecy, or the Agincourt (both in my price range). I really like cut and thrust swords, but the Agincourt (and XV) is a thrusting sword. I like the design (hilt-wise) of the Agincourt, but the Crecy's hilt is less appealing hilt-wise. Should I go with Handling characteristics(Crecy), or speed and looks (Agincourt)?? Maybe I should just buy both.. Big Grin. I'd love to hear all your opinions & suggestions!

-Michael F.

"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Agincourt vs. Crecy         Reply with quote

Michael F. wrote:
Maybe I should just buy both.. Big Grin.

-Michael F.


I second that Happy that is what I did since I could not decide on a single one (plus I am trying to build a collection around the Oakeshott typology)

I feel that both have their own appeal and strengths. I think that it will be pretty hard to logically and decisively chose one over the other except based on personal taste. and here-in lies the problem Big Grin

Alexi
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's hard to give a strong opinion one way or the other based only on conceptual drawings.

I would be willing to bet that the Agincourt will cut more effectively than you think.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Michael F.




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I would be willing to bet that the Agincourt will cut more effectively than you think.


I was thinking that a little too. I've read the reviews on the First Gen. Agincourt and it is apparent that it cuts well. Could XV's be classified as cut and thrust?

-Michael F.

"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael F. wrote:
Could XV's be classified as cut and thrust?

Michael, read our Type XV Spotlight Article. For that matter, read all our spotlights. They're good readin'.

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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Could XV's be classified as cut and thrust?

-Michael F.


I would say YES, as I own an Arms&Armor Black Prince (your classic Type XVa). While the emphasis is certainly in thrusting, her ability to turn a cardboard box into a heap of paper shreddings is quite impressive. I'm sure the Agincourt and Crecy will be exceptional swords (though I'm a little reluctant to comment on production swords that don't yet exist). Go with whichever one is more suitable toward your style of swordplay; if you're like me and like to half-sword, perhaps the Agincourt will be the optimal choice. I think a type XVa is good for half-swording, though perhaps not as well as a XVII. A type XVI blade (like the Crecy) is among my all-time favorites to cut with. -Ted

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J. Padgett




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PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a tough call, and I sympathize since i also feel like a kid in a candy store when looking at the Albion Nextgens. I like the lines of the Agincourt better, and hope to add it to my collection sometime. If they were making only 100 of them I'd tell you to keep away just to raise my chances to get my hands on one, but since there will be 500 I'm sure that won't be necessary. Wink

There are a couple of reviews of XVI blades around here which might shed light on the Crecy, and maybe some owners of an XVa blade can chime in with their sword's cutting ability. Nevermind it looks like Edward has already done that second part. Happy
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David Lannon




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Crecy!!!         Reply with quote

I own both of the first editions of these swords and love both, but the Crecy is by far my favorite of the two. The Agincourt is VERY light and extremely fast but is a dedicated thrusting sword. (although I was supprised how well it dismembered the box it came in) I wouldn't compare it with the Black Prince as that is a war sword whereas the Agincourt is more of a ....personal protection sword.

The Crecy does have a rather plain hilt so on mine I ordered it with oxblood leather and had the cross and pommel blued. I definitely does not look plain now. My Crecy is the first gen version and I hear the newer ones are better all the way around...of course the same can probably be said of the new agincourt......

Of course the "Get Both" answer is the correct one Laughing Out Loud

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Dave Lannon

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Michael F.




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmmmmmm..still very tough. It is hard to tell from just conceptual drawings, I am leaning slightly to the Agincourt but the Crecy is still appealing. I think i'll wait to make a final and definitive answer until I actually see the finished product. In the meantime, I would love to hear more from everyone, and maybe some of the guys at Albion can give me a little bit more info Happy .

Thanks!
Michael F.

"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Crecy!!!         Reply with quote

I wouldn't compare it with the Black Prince as that is a war sword whereas the Agincourt is more of a ....personal protection sword.

Hey David. I've never actually seen the FirstGen Agincourt; what makes it a personal sword as opposed to a war-sword like the Black Prince?

"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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David Lannon




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward, the 1st gen Agincourt is (at least to me) a little too light for punching through plate. The Black Prince (A&A) that I've handled was MUCH more robust. In my opinion, they are different animals. I really like my Agincourt and would not trade it for anything, but it would not be my fist choice of a war sword in the era of plate. It would be perfect for spitting men at arms or lightly armed pesants.....

Of course I would like to see the new Agincourt.....looks to be more substantial.
Just my .02....keep in mind, I don't normally like those pokey swords Laughing Out Loud

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Dave Lannon

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To echo Dave, the First Gen Agincourt and Black Prince swords are very different swords.


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Edward Hitchens




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Surprised Seeing them side-by-side, they certainly are different; enough to make the Agincourt's blade look almost like a type XVIII instead of a XVa. Another notable difference is the pommels. The Prince's pommel makes the sword a proverbial mace if used in that manner (much like A&A's Henry V, which I also own), but grasping the pommel while using it with both hands is comfortable. The FirstGen Agincourt was a beauty; I'm gonna miss it. I'm sure the new one will be spectacular though.
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Gabriel Stevens




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For my part I hope the new Agincourt is more robust than the 1st gen version, maybe a compromise between the Black Prince and the 1st gen? I think I recall Peter mentioning the blade length being over 34" but I could be wrong. And not to get too far off topic but when I first read the title of this thread I thought it was refering to the actual battles... Big Grin
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Jason Dingledine
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriel Stevens wrote:
For my part I hope the new Agincourt is more robust than the 1st gen version, maybe a compromise between the Black Prince and the 1st gen? I think I recall Peter mentioning the blade length being over 34" but I could be wrong. And not to get too far off topic but when I first read the title of this thread I thought it was refering to the actual battles... Big Grin


Hey Gabriel,

The new Agincourt blade is quite a departure from the 1st Gen model of the same name. The blade is slightly thicker and longer, and have a drastically different character in it's profile taper. It will be a larger, more robust sword than the 1st Gen model (which was admittedly at the lower end of the weight spectrum).

Jason Dingledine
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Dingledine wrote:
It will be a larger, more robust sword than the 1st Gen model (which was admittedly at the lower end of the weight spectrum).


I always thought the decision to make the original First Gen Agincourt at the lighter-end of the weight spectrum was a good one. At that time, it seems the market was all over swords in that area of the historical record, and almost leaning towards the "underweight" range as well. Having said though, I'm pleased to know the Next Gen Agincourt is evolving into a more typical example of the type and that the market has evolved its understanding of historical examples that inspire these replicas.

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Gabriel Stevens




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Jason. Sigh....looks like I'm going to have to sell a guitar, I'm probably going to lose my mind when I see the actual steel version.
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Michael F.




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriel Stevens wrote:
I'm probably going to lose my mind when I see the actual steel version.


I am feeling the same way! It's amazing the difference between the drawing and the real prototype. For example, I really didn't like The Constable, but seeing Howard's prototype pictures it looked really nice! I hope it's that way with the Crecy and Agincourt!

"Tis but a scratch.....A scratch? your arm's off!"-- Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So when are we going to see the real thing ! Not complaining, just really curious. Wink

The final Albion production swords have consistantly looked more appealling than the drawings. ( Nice drawings, just even better looking swords Laughing Out Loud )

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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Apr, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: Albion Crecy         Reply with quote

I have the 1st generation Albion Crecy Grete.

The stats are not posted yet for the next generation version, but the first generation that I have is an extremely solid and well made sword (3 lbs and 4 oz) that I use as a practice blunted sword. It is really a bit heavy for my strength (6 foot tall, 200 lbs), but definately a strong cutter and a strong thruster when used with 2 hands. I have easily cut through small tree limbs (1/2" to 3/4" diameter) even with the sword in blunted condition, and find that stabbing through 1/2" thick cardboard (patio garden furniture box) is easily done one handed. My friends in ARMA tell me that it is very authentic in weight and characteristics as to what a true long sword was supposed to have been.

If you want a really well made sword for primarily two handed use, I recommend the Crecy.

Jared Smith
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