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Dewey H.




Location: Kentucky
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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: 10th century anglo-saxon helmets         Reply with quote

I have neen trying to find authentic historical references to helmets that would been worn by a 10th century anglo-saxon Nobel or Thegn.

All the helmets i have found so far for this time frame are found Scandinavian locations. I know there was allot of overlap with the Norse equipment and armor.

I know there is the coppergate and pioneer helmet but from my research those would been from the 8th or 9th centuries, do we know of any latter examples.

If this has already been discussed on previous post I was not able to locate it and would be great full if you could provide that topic.
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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Sun 26 Jul, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: 10th century anglo-saxon helmets         Reply with quote

Dewey H. wrote:
I have neen trying to find authentic historical references to helmets that would been worn by a 10th century anglo-saxon Nobel or Thegn.

All the helmets i have found so far for this time frame are found Scandinavian locations. I know there was allot of overlap with the Norse equipment and armor.

I know there is the coppergate and pioneer helmet but from my research those would been from the 8th or 9th centuries, do we know of any latter examples.

If this has already been discussed on previous post I was not able to locate it and would be great full if you could provide that topic.


Conical helmets would have been used by Anglo Saxons. They feature quite prominently on both sides at Hastings in the Bayeux Tapestry.
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Dewey H.




Location: Kentucky
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Reading list: 20 books

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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jul, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply, do we lnow if they would have had brass or silver ornamentation As earlier examples.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 7:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a tricky question.

So physical remaining helmets of the Anglo-Saxon era-

Shorewell helmet500-550
Sutton Hoo helmet c. 625
Staffordshire hoard helmet 600-650
Benty Grange helmet c. 600s
Pioneer/Wollaston Helmet late 600s early 700s
York/Coppergate Helmet 700s

You have some art but not a ton with helmets
Frank's Casket is likely early 700s

The Bayeux Tapestry is c. 1082 so sort of tricky to put that in there without further evidence.

The only Scandinavian helmet of this era found in Scandinavia that has sufficient integrity of use is Gjermundbu and it is 10th century/900s.

The Yarm helmet is a Scandinavian helmet found in England and has been dated between the 9th to 11th, not super helpful but likely your best bet.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00766097.2020.1755126?journalCode=ymed20

So between helmets that are a bit earlier you might work something out.

I personally think conicals were in use as some artwork shows something like them perhaps but that is my breakdown.

Best,

RPM
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Outside England you have the st. wenceslas helmet that has been dated to the 10th or 11th century that might work. It has a general shape as most the Bayeux Tapestry helmets.

RPM
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Dewey H.




Location: Kentucky
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
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Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randal
Thank you for your reply

This is interesting this is the first I have seen the Yarn helm. There does seem to be allot of spectacle helm from this time.

They do seem older and more norse to me but that may just me my understanding based on pop culture.

I will research more this is great info.

That leads to a follow-up question should spectacle helms from the time have aventails?

Another example from this time would be the Tjele fragment I think cold be spectacle or nasal. Unable to tell from what services. Thought?

I always liked wenceslas helmet but feel it is more continental in look and feel.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2020 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So you have a few more viking helmets but they are far more fragmentary than the anglo-saxon ones and gjermundbu.

Two fragments from Gotland and one from Kiev.

They are hard to figure much of the general helmet.

The Yarm recently has been evaluated by specialists at the University of Durham and the report was it's legit. Originally it was found shortly after gjermundbu so people felt that was strangely fortuitous. Then it just is not a very handsome helmet. But the review on it seems pretty much like it's legit. I might make something like it but it's sort of ugly in many ways.

For am anglo-saxon helmet is look at the in between from the latter anglo-saxon helmets above and gjermundbu. Then consider the fact that by the late 1oth to around 1000 we have solid conical usage.

I suspect conicals were in use by the 10th but I bet spangen versions were rather common as well as continued round spangens and perhaps rounds.

It seems the camail/aventails disappear sometime around this time to be replaced by mail coifs attached to hauberks but there are many in art with just the helmet, no mail anything on the head. I bet the camails lingered some depending on status and region.

It's been a little while since I did a deep review of this but off the top of my head that's my best ideas.

RPM
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