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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 29 Oct, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Seax and scabbard         Reply with quote

Hello everyone.

This is a seax scabbard found in Trondheim, Norway 10 century and i am looking for a blacksmith to make me a seax and scabbard that will look like the scabbard in this picture.
The scabbard is 42 cm long.

The seax blade will not look exactly like this drawing but have a curved end at the tip and also have pattern welding.
The blade should be made with type of steel that is close to the period.
I am thinking the handle of the seax should have carving as well. But not 100% on that yet.

Do you know of any smith that you would recommend for this type of work?
Any experiences from ordering seax yourself?


Thank you



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Daniel Parry




Location: UK
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Reading list: 39 books

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PostPosted: Tue 29 Oct, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting. Where was it found and in what context ? Remarkable condition for leather of that age with the detail still visible.
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 29 Oct, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is found in Trondheim municipality. Any more exact i don`t know.
There was two scabbards found together with this one, but that one is quite damaged.

Anyway, scabbards in Norway from this era is very rare find. This one is displayed in a museum in Trondheim.
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Milan Ziegler





Joined: 26 Apr 2009

Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello!

I would recommend Tod's workshop. His saxes (and everything else) are just phenomenal: https://todsworkshop.com/pages/gallery
He is very talented and his work is as historically accurate as reasonably possible. Personally I don't own an item from him, but I have been following his work and many times I saw pieces I would like to own very much. You can find many examples of his work on this forum.

Petr Floriánek does nice work: https://www.gullinbursti.org/ His pieces are marvelous, although I would say most of his work is less historical that Tod's. He makes some of the best carved handles.

Best of luck with your project!
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 10:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, Milan.

I know tods work with scabbards is fantastic from youtube videos, but did`t know he did pattern welding, I saw some photos in gallery at his website and there where very fine looking pattern welded blades i must say.

Yes i had a look at florianeks website and his work looks great to. A lot a pattern welding and nice scabbards. His carving of the handles is very nice. My impression of him is he does authentic historic replicas and fantasy ones. It all depends on what the customer wants.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Håvard,
I've merged your two identical topics into one to avoid confusion. Please do not double-post the same info. Thank you.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HI HYavard,

A nice project and thanks very much for thinking of me, but that project says to me "Petr" so that is who I would recommend, but if you want to come to me that is also very cool.

Good luck with h your project.

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
www.instagram.com/todsworkshop
www.facebook.com/TodTodeschini
www.youtube.com/todsworkshop
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Håvard,
I've merged your two identical topics into one to avoid confusion. Please do not double-post the same info. Thank you.


Yes, sorry about that. I realized i posted in the wrong forum and put up a new one here instead.
Since i did`t know how to delete the old post i just left it there hoping it would be removed.
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leo Todeschini wrote:
HI HYavard,

A nice project and thanks very much for thinking of me, but that project says to me "Petr" so that is who I would recommend, but if you want to come to me that is also very cool.

Good luck with h your project.

Tod


Hello Tod.

Thanks for the recommendation of Petr and for commenting in this thread. I will check him out some more.

BTW, love your video of the longbow vs armor test. That was the most historically accurate thorough test i have come across as long as i can remember. Good job and keep those great tests coming. It is very interesting.
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 756

PostPosted: Wed 30 Oct, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice scabbard find! Whoever you go with, I hope you keep us posted with the project.

I have some nice things from Petr F and Tod, and in addition to them, I would also suggest George Ezell and Jeff Helmes. I've attached a photo of a pattern weld seax and scabbard with incisions by George.

Lots of great seax makers out there



 Attachment: 127.14 KB
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 31 Oct, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Will do. Thank you for suggestions. I will check them out.

That is a beautiful looking blade, the pattern welding is precise and hold the same form throughout the blade. Just fantastic.

Nicolaysen, are you from danish ancestry?
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 756

PostPosted: Fri 01 Nov, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
That is a beautiful looking blade, the pattern welding is precise and hold the same form throughout the blade. Just fantastic.


George does a fantastic job with historical blade profiles and tapers. The seax is a bit of a passion for him. He's a member here but I haven't seen him post new work for a bit.

Quote:
Nicolaysen, are you from danish ancestry?


Yes, among other European immigrants. But we still have some family connections in Denmark and in fact I visited there (and some museums etc) just last year. A very enjoyable time.
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 275

PostPosted: Fri 01 Nov, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Nice scabbard find! Whoever you go with, I hope you keep us posted with the project.

I have some nice things from Petr F and Tod, and in addition to them, I would also suggest George Ezell and Jeff Helmes. I've attached a photo of a pattern weld seax and scabbard with incisions by George.

Lots of great seax makers out there


If you're on FaceBook, George is a FB friend of mine and member in a group where I'm one of the admins called "WEAPONS".

I don't know how often he comes here (I usually come here daily), but I'll post this thread to him and let him know his name has come up.

I'll also post a link to the FB group - if you're on, FB, just go to WEAPONS and apply to join - I'll keep a look out for you and approve you to get in. Make sure you answer the questions, just in case someone else sees the application before I do. Some automatically deny if you don't answer. They aren't a big deal - just three of them asking about your interest, if you're a smith/maker and what your main area of interest is. No need to write a novel, though. Happy

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ULAweapons/
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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 235

PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov, 2019 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I still drop in occasionally... Happy
What I find interesting about these two sheaths is that they seem to be made for a type IV style late Saxon seax yet the tooling on the sheaths is definitely Scandinavian in style, along with where they were found. Something of a Saxon/Nordic fusion...

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you mean this type IV/II of the chart?

I am trying to find a blade that goes with the scabbard in this thread.

The style is scandinavian yes, and very norwegian. Of the finds the norwegian scabbards have no brass, copper fittings alongside the scabbard like the typical swedish scabbards have. Before i thought maybe that metal was valuable and they stripped it off the scabbard before they threw it away. But apparantly that was not the case. The style of making scabbard was different. And i am sure that have there been more finds we would have seen differences from different parts of norway as well.



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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 235

PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More along the lines of the type IV/III or a narrow type IV, judging by the sheath shape and overall style. This is not typically the type you would expect to find in Norway, but these look like an odd fusion of Norse and Anglo-Saxon styles.
" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok so more a anglo saxon blade type and scandinavian decorated scabbard.

Would this be a correct breakdown of the seaxblade?



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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 235

PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After speaking with someone far more knowledgeable than I about it, it appears that these are almost certainly imports from England or Ireland and not native to Trondheim... So there goes my theory. There's a little information on it here: https://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/library/browse/details.xhtml?recordId=3188929&recordType=Journal&fbclid=IwAR3DmpirlZ9scjzGVjzft1qfw1Z6MBLmz66-wPT9iK8sw3g59B2gpcmnktE

I think you're drawing is about right, though I would make the handle a wee bit longer and the blade slightly shorter so it would fit in the sheath properly and be retrievable from it. Though the blade is likely a type IV, it has a longer point section than usual judging by the sheath.

" I have found that it is very often the case that if you state some absolute rule of history, there will be an example, however extremely unusual, to break it."
Gabriel Lebec

https://www.facebook.com/relicforge
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Håvard Nygård




Location: Trondheim, Norway
Joined: 27 Oct 2019

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Who did you speak to and what are they saying?

Thank you for posting that link: "Anglo-Saxon Inscribed Sheaths from Aachen, Dublin and Trondheim." That was an interesting read.
The sheats from Aachen, Dublin and Trondheim have all two very telling things in common. Their style av sheath is very similar. Different ornamentation but done in similar style. The inscription on all the sheats is Anglo Saxon letters.

There has been 20 sheats found, made in similar way:

7 in York, England
5 in London, England
2 in Glouchester, England
2 in Trondheim, Norway
1 in Lund, Sweden
1 in Aachen, Germany
1 in Dublin, Ireland
1 in Hexham, England

Now only 3 of these had Anglo-Saxon lettering showing on the sheats. Many where broken and therefore we will never know.

I also read a source mentioned in the study called in norwegian: "Trondheims fortid i bygrunnen" Meaning "Trondheim`s city ground past". It is about the 2 found Trondheim sheats as it was described by the norwegian archaeologist who analysed them. They said and agreed that it was a foreign import. There where two archaeologist named Petersen and K.Rygh who tought it was from the early 10th century, and from the Frankish Carolingian Empire but that has later been redated from G.Gall to be from late 10th century and an Anglo-Saxon work.

So what to think about all this?

My goal with this seax was to continue the 10th century viking kit i am trying to assemble. I am not sure how this will fit in with that. If this sheath and seax was carried by an 10th century norsemen who had aquired it from Dublin or York it is fine. But that is very hard to determine.
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