[Pedro Paulo Gaião]

Last month I got a really heated discussion with my colleagues in a portuguese medievalist page we publish regarding if the Besteiros do Conto (a portuguese elite militia comparable to the genoese crossbowmen) or any other missile-armed soldiers used their helmets with visors. The discussion also included if Swiss infantry ever used visored bascinets as well.

I discredited the idea since I hadn't found any artistic evidence for it, nor documental evidence or any ordinance prescribing it. Thing is, there is a portuguese historian saying a 14th c. Portuguese Ordinance do required visors, as it follows:

[Mark Moore]

I can speak from personal experience when I say that firing any ranged weapon, be it crossbow or whatever, is extremely difficult to do and maintain any degree of accuracy.

I was having thoughts along these same lines once, and borrowed a friends crossbow--a modern hunting version. I donned my visored German sallet helm and fired several bolts at a bale of hay about 90-100 feet away---and completely missed all but two times. Without the helmet, solid hits every time. In the heat of battle, I could only see these types of weapons being of any advantage unless used 'en mass'---and without anything to even remotely hamper ones vision.

If you throw enough stones, you're bound to hit something...sometimes. ..............McM

[Jean Henri Chandler]

I probably shouldn't answer this since all my previous replies to these threads seem to have been ignored, but four quick points:

*There were actually knights and mounted cavalry in the Swiss armies. They were primarily infantry but certainly not all infantry. If you ever go to Switzerland you'll notice many knightly castles in the countryside just like everywhere else in Central Europe.

*The type of armor requirements for burghers such as in the harnischrodel mentioned in that article you linked, were not unique to towns in the Swiss Confederation. They were common to towns all over Central Europe. I've been pointing this out to you for a while.

*Familiarity with certain kit can make it much easier to use over time. When I was in the army a long, long time ago I initially found it very cumbersome wearing the helmet and flack jacket and LBE with all the other gear we had to carry, but quickly got used to it.

*It's hard to fence in armor too, or even to just move around in it efficiently. Assuming you have armor that fits properly (a big 'if' in a modern context) one can learn to do it. But it takes some time.

As a bonus, if you watch this video of re-enactors shooting late medieval firearm replicas, while most of them have chapeau de fer etc., you'll notice a couple of them using visored sallets toward the end of the video, starting at around 0:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkbSTyT1COE

[Michael P. Smith]

In period art, there are lots of depictions of crossbowmen wearing sallets with the visor up. Seems like that was a common practice.

[Pedro Paulo Gaião]

[Jean Henri Chandler]

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

Paul Dolnstein's sketchbook includes an image of a mounted crossbower who's wearing a helmet with the visor down. You can find that image in this thread.