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Steven Pearson





Joined: 06 Jul 2009

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sun 23 Jun, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Armstreet Italian "Kings Guard" Bascinet         Reply with quote

So I have been eye balling this helmet for a while and finally decided to get it as I always loved the look. Based on good feedback for Armstreet and them being around a while I decided to get it.

It arrived last week and the dimensions of it are a bit "off" from the looks of the helm on the web site. In my opinion it is similar to the helm advertised but not the same helm, at least not the face plate. I realize these are hand made and there will be some variations but I really wanted the look of the helm on the website and it was not a cheap helm.

I sent my concerns to Armstreet so I will see if anything can be done. Really the main issue is with the face plate.

Am I expecting to much here? Is this within a normal amount of differences for an item like this? I have a few other helms but have always held them in hand before buying but since this comes from the Ukraine that's not something I can do. It's still nice looking but if I had held this in my hand I would not have bought it for the price.

I see these differences in the photos on their website and the helm I got:
1. The eye slits are much more bulging and look a bit like bug eyes. They are also not rounded with the shape of the helm but are more straight in a line.
2. The mouth slit is not out on the cone but down by the bottom near the etching plate.
3. The brass etching bar does not extend all the way across the top of the visor like it does on the bottom
4. The nose is quite a bit pointier then pictured
5. The aventail chord does not lace through all the vervelles
6. There are bolt holes that in the photo are brass in my helm they are not

In addition some of the aventail rings were put together wrong but I was able to fix that with only a little work.

First the armstreet helm:
medieval-bascinet-helmet-hounskull-sca-bargrill-the-kings-guard-4 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

medieval-bascinet-helmet-hounskull-sca-bargrill-the-kings-guard-1 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

And the helm I received

IMG_20190622_115333201 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

IMG_20190622_115346293_BURST001 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

IMG_20190622_122255182 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

IMG_20190622_115349994 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr

IMG_20190623_103126719 by Steven Pearson, on Flickr
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Mon 24 Jun, 2019 3:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have very little knowledge on 14th century helmets, and I'm sure I haven't seen all the extant pieces of bascinets in museums and in period art... But the helmet you received looks to me a bit like a cross of bascinet and a plague doctor mask:



Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Steven Pearson





Joined: 06 Jul 2009

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue 25 Jun, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ha your right it does sadly. I am in contact with Armstreet support over the issue so we will see how it goes. I will report back on what occurs.
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 583

PostPosted: Wed 26 Jun, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I can tell you the helmet you received is indeed quite different from the photo's provided.

Can't know for sure but it seems like they took some design clues from this Italian example










If the above is indeed their inspiration they aren't entirely on point.

The skull terminates far higher and further to the rear, when the visor is down it points down and not forward, the hinges turn into the visor at a curve and not a ninety degree angle, the 'snout' and vision slits sit lower on the visor giving a larger brow/forehead part of the visor.

I have to add that the look of the Lyle bascinet depends on the angle a lot;







That said it also looks after the Historic Enterprise one;


http://historicenterprises.com/bascinet-itali...th=104_153

The holes in the eye slots seem like those on this (Italian?) example now found in Switzerland;





I hope this helps in some capacity.

PS, sometimes it can he hard to see if the visor was original with the helmet or whether the whole ensemble is some composite piece in which case the exact fitting is always suspect.
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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 317

PostPosted: Sat 29 Jun, 2019 12:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUVXWeN0Es

This is the one they advertised on youtube, it does look different as your visor seem to be somewhat bent downward. If anything maybe you could ask them for a new replacement visor.
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Steven Pearson





Joined: 06 Jul 2009

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul, 2019 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pieter B. wrote:
Well I can tell you the helmet you received is indeed quite different from the photo's provided.

Can't know for sure but it seems like they took some design clues from this Italian example










If the above is indeed their inspiration they aren't entirely on point.

The skull terminates far higher and further to the rear, when the visor is down it points down and not forward, the hinges turn into the visor at a curve and not a ninety degree angle, the 'snout' and vision slits sit lower on the visor giving a larger brow/forehead part of the visor.

I have to add that the look of the Lyle bascinet depends on the angle a lot;







That said it also looks after the Historic Enterprise one;


http://historicenterprises.com/bascinet-itali...th=104_153

The holes in the eye slots seem like those on this (Italian?) example now found in Switzerland;





I hope this helps in some capacity.

PS, sometimes it can he hard to see if the visor was original with the helmet or whether the whole ensemble is some composite piece in which case the exact fitting is always suspect.


These historical examples are what I was looking for in look. I believe they loosely based the helm on the Churburg helmet. Thanks for sharing these. My thoughts are similar to yours, the dimensions are way off from the photos displayed.

That historical enterprises helm is all kinds of awesome, but oh my gawd the price. I don't make enough money to justify that purchase haha.
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Steven Pearson





Joined: 06 Jul 2009

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Mon 01 Jul, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward Lee wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUVXWeN0Es

This is the one they advertised on youtube, it does look different as your visor seem to be somewhat bent downward. If anything maybe you could ask them for a new replacement visor.


Interesting...I had not seen this, thank you for sharing. They said I can return it for a full refund so that is what I am going. I have yet to get the refund yet so will see how it goes. I am planning to ship it out tomorrow.
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Tom Wolfe




Location: East Anglia, England
Joined: 10 Aug 2015

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Wed 10 Jul, 2019 3:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Disappointing for you but the correct thing to do, I suppose. I think the skull looks ok, but the visor is dead wrong, especially as it doesn't even compare to the photographs by which it was advertised. Looking at the downward slant of the nose, it made me think rather of the drooping shape of a gothic sabaton, or of the plague mask as pictured above. Certainly not the rather stubbier, upward-facing visor of every other bascinet that we have seen.

Steven Pearson wrote:
Edward Lee wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUVXWeN0Es

This is the one they advertised on youtube, it does look different as your visor seem to be somewhat bent downward. If anything maybe you could ask them for a new replacement visor.


Interesting...I had not seen this, thank you for sharing. They said I can return it for a full refund so that is what I am going. I have yet to get the refund yet so will see how it goes. I am planning to ship it out tomorrow.

Collector of original 16th-17th century European arms and armour. Would like to collect earlier, but budget doesn't allow- yet!
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