"Mastercrafted Lynx School Witcher Swords"
Gentlemen, i am perfectly aware that myArmoury is a place where usually almost only historically correct weapons are to be presented and discussed. Nevertheless would like to present you the work of a Facebook based forge named "Kaer Morhen Forge" (after the old castle ruin which serves as the remaining Witchers stronghold/refuge in the series of novels and videogames); simply because they are just great craftmanship. Unlike many other quite unrealistic fantasy swords the weapons of the Witchers are based on real world bastard sword/longsword designs. The maker is officially approved by CD Project Red (the game studio). The blades are made from polish "PN 50HF" steel, which is basically the same stuff as the better known "6150". Please correct me if i am wrong. They are hardened to +/- 50 HRC.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/PN/50hf.shtml
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/AISI/6150.shtml

The fittings, guard and pommel are made from "surgical steel" according to the maker; i am not quite sure what that is. The swords are quite light, nimble and show some distal taper as well as some nice blade geometry. More data to come, i have yet to take exact measurements. If that should be of no interest to anybody please inform me, thank you.

https://imgur.com/a/MYv72y0
"Surgical steel" is biomedical grade stainless steel, which is completely wasted on sword fittings

Nathan won't treat you kindly if this is spam.
Dan Howard wrote:
"Surgical steel" is biomedical grade stainless steel, which is completely wasted on sword fittings

Nathan won't treat you kindly if this is spam.


Ah, stainless steel, OK Sounds good to me. Please, why should this be "completely wasted" on sword fittings? And i do not understand the meaning of that "Nathan" sentence, sorry? I have that strange feeling i just was adressed in a quite hostile and threatening manner... and i do not have the slightest idea why, sorry. Tell me to get lost with my fantasy crap - that i would understand. But please, dont get cryptic to me.
Sworsa
Hello and welcome

Usually we focus on historical based swords.which these do seem to be.

I like many others were very into the Lord of the rings swords and I think you will find interest here.

Thank you for sharing
Re: Sworsa
Lance Morris wrote:
Hello and welcome

Usually we focus on historical based swords.which these do seem to be.

I like many others were very into the Lord of the rings swords and I think you will find interest here.

Thank you for sharing


Thanx a lot, Lance... if i may. We know each other from "All Swords/All Swords II" though... ;-)
Holger, I think what is happening in the reply you didn't like so much, is that your initial post reads very much like an advertisement. A commercial. A spam. If it is, then there are some rules here about where sales and advertisements should and should not happen. Its also completely possible to read your post as excitement.

I'm going to assume excitement and say thanks for sharing something you like. I've not done much with the Witcher games so I don't really know that lore. Maybe when Steam sale comes around this year I'll correct that gap a bit.

Regarding the stainless steel fittings. Stainless has a higher risk of failure that any number of other metals. Fittings can be impact points. Potentially at least. So, stainless gives you an appearance and maybe easier maintenance, but it also potentially imparts a significant weak point. For may folks that's not a desirable trade. If the piece is intended to be exclusively for decoration the calculus changes. Key thing with any of this stuff is whether it makes you happy. Trying to make other people happy as a collector just seems to get expensive!
With regards to the discussion about whether or not it's topical I'd wager it's a cultural difference in phrasing and word choices. As a fellow German I rather intuitively grasped his meaning (that being "Here are some cool swords I recently acquired, they're not historical pieces though, so I'm not sure if you're gonna like me posting this here").

As for the swords: I'm curious about the stats. They look relatively massive and weighty.
The game specified Geralt's preferred length as 40.5 inches (dialogue with Eibhear Hattori, first encounter, though it's not clear if that refers to total or blade length - my money's on the latter).
The blades seem to have a distinct "ground, not pound" look about them - they almost look wallhanger-ish to be honest. Likewise I feel that the fittings lack somewhat in refinement, although the cast pommels do look really nice.

Overall I find the "silver" one (curved guard, for those not in the know) more appealing visually, despite being far more of a fantasy design. I'm sure that's partly due to how weird the semi-flamberge blade of the "steel" sword looks. That will likely be a nightmare to sharpen. On that note the secondary bevel seems to be quite steep and short. Were those my swords, I'd probably change that to a longer, flatter secondary bevel where feasible.

I'm also not a big fan of metal rings instead of leather risers in the middle of the hilt, maybe partly because of how huge and heavy they seemed in Freerk Wieringa's build (still a decent watch on youtube, though).

Finally about stainless steel: While it's a poor choice for longer blades, it also happens to be what Albion uses for their hilt components in the Maestro and, apparently retired, Skirmish lines, which are specifically built to withstand hard use over prolonged periods of time (c.f. http://www.albion-swords.com/The%20I33.html , http://www.albion-swords.com/ROYAL%20ARMOURY%20I33.html )
I'd therefore suggest that it's probably a fine choice for the hilt components, as they're most likely to come in contact with skin even when just dry handling the sword.
Personally,
I think a few people get confused with stainless blade swords having zamak (I think its called) fittings
these fittings are generally only decorative,
some may be surprised to find how many companies/makers that have fittings cast are using a form of stainless steel for casting,
brass, bronze, stainless in different make ups, are all used a lot, etc,
if all companies actually listed exact speks for fittings would you change if they speked similer to a stainless,
personally, done well stainless is no weaker than a lot out there, definitely good enough to compare (maybe not better) to the like of lower carbon fittings forged and fitted to useable swords,
the steel listed for the blades also speks the old bs47 or en47 lower on the page,as noted in Oakeshott's books as one of the best steels that can be used for a quality blade,
there are plenty of multi $$ costing swords using the same,
but as always, the detail is in the heat treat, doesn't matter what the steel is if this isn't correct,
from the couple of pics shown before the cookies monster kicks in, they look like nice swords,
didn't see the overall figures, which is a huge thing when I look at a sword so,,
but nice works, :cool:
"Steel Sword" data:

weight 1600 g

overall length 120 cm

blade length 90 cm

POB 4,5 cm from crossguard

COP 53 cm from crossguard




"Silver Sword" data:

weight 1600 g

overall length 118 cm

blade length 89 cm

POB 7 cm from crossguard

COP 57 cm from crossguard

The edge segments on the "steel sword" have no secondary bevels; theyre just not polished the same. The sword is scary sharp. On the "silver sword" the secondary bevels are quite small and not steep. I have been told by other people who seem to know their business that this is pretty common on hollow ground blades.

Thanx for some friendly answers; but overall i must say that a lot of people who "warned" me from myArmoury are right. I might prefer not to post more of my stuff here; even my more historical pieces. I feel right away treated condescendingly, to be honest.
Holger Mahling wrote:
"Steel Sword" data:

Thanx for some friendly answers; but overall i must say that a lot of people who "warned" me from myArmoury are right. I might prefer not to post more of my stuff here; even my more historical pieces. I feel right away treated condescendingly, to be honest.


As someone who has seen my friends play the Witcher game and know that they are fans ( i have played a bit of the first one), I appreciate you linking the swords and the design. If nothing else, it is beautiful steel work.

Please do not be disheartened by the comments, I have spent a lot of time reading the forums before I became a member, and this is one of the few tightly moderated courteous bastions I've found on the internet.

Thanks for the imgur link, I enjoyed having a look at the swords.
And do post your historical pieces man.

F
Holger Mahling wrote:
Thanx for some friendly answers; but overall i must say that a lot of people who "warned" me from myArmoury are right. I might prefer not to post more of my stuff here; even my more historical pieces. I feel right away treated condescendingly, to be honest.


The above statement makes me think that perhaps this isn't the site for you much more than the posting of fantasy items.

Having said that, I'm really sorry you feel that people were condescending to you. I don't really particularly like Dan's response to you in particular. I wish it was worded much, much better. I believe the idea was that if the topic was spam (promotion of your own brand), the topic would be removed. We have very little spam here and what slips through is usually tossed pretty quickly.

To add my own thoughts: I'd encourage you to look at your original topic's text and consider what your role in the matter might have been. I had to read it thoroughly and critically to determine that you were not advertising your own company/products. Add on top of that you posting swords that are out of the scope of focus for our site ("A Resource for Historic Arms and Armour Collectors") and those two things really very much start to look like something that doesn't belong here.

Please allow me to suggest that adding the proper context to your post's text might have avoided this. Making it clear that you are not associated with the maker but are instead a consumer of their products is key and would have gone a long way to avoid any suspicion from those reading it. Acknowledging that fantasy swords are generally off-topic to this site was good, but adding more context that would make this subject interesting to historically-minded collectors may have helped as well.

The other thing that would have helped is for people who read this topic as being questionable to report it rather than type condescending stuff. Again, I wish that hadn't happened.

~~~~

As to the products themselves, I don't see how they are based on "real world bastard sword/longsword designs." The stats and measurements just don't reflect that. That's okay to me... because, why can't a fantasy piece just be a fantasy piece? They look good in their own right. I think we tend to confuse people when we try to draw parallels between things that don't necessarily have a connection. This maker can stand on their own without being comparative. They appear to be doing some cool stuff.
"As to the products themselves, I don't see how they are based on "real world bastard sword/longsword designs." The stats and measurements just don't reflect that"

Excuse me; but what is that supposed to say? All of my "bastards"/hand-and-a-halfs/longsword range from 1300 g to 1600 g, except my flimsy ATrim, which is 1100 g, but this is my light cutter anyway. I even have a one-handed XVa here from Mateusz Sulowski which already hits 1400 g. I have a bad feeling asking this; but are you telling me almost every european smith got his stuff done wrong? Lutel? Jiri Novak? Viktor Berbekucz? The Suolowskis? Or Hanwei, for going the chinese way? To make sure, i do not have the intention to be rude or something; i am just very much surprised and feeling uneasy with such statements.
Holger Mahling wrote:
"As to the products themselves, I don't see how they are based on "real world bastard sword/longsword designs." The stats and measurements just don't reflect that"

Excuse me; but what is that supposed to say? All of my "bastards"/hand-and-a-halfs/longsword range from 1300 g to 1600 g, except my flimsy ATrim, which is 1100 g, but this is my light cutter anyway. I even have a one-handed XVa here from Mateusz Sulowski which already hits 1400 g. I have a bad feeling asking this; but are you telling me almost every european smith got his stuff done wrong? Lutel? Jiri Novak? Viktor Berbekucz? The Suolowskis? Or Hanwei, for going the chinese way? To make sure, i do not have the intention to be rude or something; i am just very much surprised and feeling uneasy with such statements.


Huh? Are you saying weight is the only measure of a sword? No. It's not. Overall weight is only one tiny little piece of it all. It may even be one of the least important things.

If I took a piece of pipe and added a cross-guard to it and the whole thing weighed 1400 g would that be a historically accurate longsword? No, of course not. Would we consider a Honda civic to be based on a Ferrari F8 Tributo simply because it has four wheels? No, of course not.

One must compare literally dozens and dozens of elements in order to determine if a sword is something historically accurate or not. These things consist of the shapes of the elements that comprise that sword, the weights and measurements of all the elements, the dynamic properties of the whole, material usage, proportion, shape, volume of the elements, and all that sort of thing.

Trying to copy an object from history is a tricky thing. They're complex. It takes a tremendous amount of study of said object to develop an eye for these things. It takes a tremendous amount of hands-on experience to develop enough data in order to recreate said object in an accurate way.

Getting back to the point at hand: I'm cool with somebody saying, "these swords have a similar weight to historical swords" but to say that they are "based on real world bastard sword/longsword designs" is not reflected by what I can see: the designs of all the components, the proportions of the elements, the provided measurements, etc, etc. It takes a lot more than one or two things to say the whole of that item is "based on" another.
Apologies for being abrupt. Professionally, I've been trained to write as briefly and concisely as possible. Tone and nuance often gets lost so it is not the best style for a discussion group. I realise that it makes me appear gruff and surly, but I'm too old and the habit is too deeply ingrained for me to change now. In real life I'm far less grumpy but my wordcount is just as low.
The smith has his website now up and running; i am linking here to his workshop page, where one can take insight what materials he uses and how. I hope he finds mercy before your eyes though... and no, this is no advertising. I am in no way related to his business - just deeply impressed from his work. Whatever that might be worth...

http://kaermorhenforge.com/en/workshop/
Holger,
Thanks for the link. :) I personally see a pretty high level of craftsmanship there. It's not historical work, but it isn't meant to be. There's a market for that kind of stuff, for sure, and his prices aren't too expensive. While the swords aren't to my own taste, they seem well-made enough, though perhaps a tad heavy for the size. They have a unique look that is much better than most swords in the non-historical genre. I prefer the Steel Sword lineup to the Silver series. Interesting stuff.
Thanx a lot! Everyone with that level of craftmanship should be paid respect and honor, for keeping an art alive.

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