| Author |
Message |
|
Bruce Wilson
|
 Posted: Mon 06 Jun, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Yeah, that "classic" high middle-ages look would seem to be about right for Westeros, although really full-on plate harness is (more-or-less) is also described in some parts of the series. I sort of like the idea of the enamelled and decorated plate that some folk seem to have - Renly's harness for example.
The men of the North come across as something between very Norman and early mediaeval (Crusades-ish, just with far more WARM clothing!!  ). Much mention is made of hauberks and "half-helms" and the big greatswords like Ice seem to fit in with that too.
The Greyjoys and the Ironborn always seemed to be pretty much a rough lot, kinda viking-like with their furs and axes like but somehow incorporating later mediaeval things like coats of plates too.
The character portraits by Russian artist Amok http://amoka.net/eng/gal/ are actually pretty darned close to how I imagine many of them to look.
I'd love to see a decent movie series made of A Song of Ice and Fire - but it would have to be done well and the story is SO complex for the average movie-goer to follow...!
|
|
  |
 |
|
Jeremiah Swanger
|
| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2005 12:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeff Hsieh wrote: |
Misconceptions? How do you mean? While there are a few little terminology issues here and there I have never really picked up on any major A&A misconceptions in the books (and let's face it, medieval weapons terminology is not very well defined anyway). I have always thought the fight scenes to be savagely realistic and very well done. Not to mention they serve the needs of the story and cahracter development very well. |
The scene that first made me cringe was where Tyrion hires that mercenary guy (can't remember his name) to fight Lyssa Arryn's knight (can't remember his name either) to win Tyrion his freedom. The author describes the mercenary as wearing chainmaille and his opponent wearing plate armor, with a shield. The mercenary sharpens his sword at the beginning, then eventually brings down the armored knight by making small slices through the plate armor, gradually weakening him.
Firstly, if he sharpened his blade as much as the author described, the edge would have failed after the first couple of strikes. Secondly, I have NEVER seen a sword SLICE through plate-- even a small gash. Maybe some of the more experienced guys have, but I can certainly say that I haven't.
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
|
|
 |
|
Jeff Hsieh
|
| Posted: Tue 07 Jun, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeremiah Swanger wrote: |
The scene that first made me cringe was where Tyrion hires that mercenary guy (can't remember his name) to fight Lyssa Arryn's knight (can't remember his name either) to win Tyrion his freedom. The author describes the mercenary as wearing chainmaille and his opponent wearing plate armor, with a shield. The mercenary sharpens his sword at the beginning, then eventually brings down the armored knight by making small slices through the plate armor, gradually weakening him.
Firstly, if he sharpened his blade as much as the author described, the edge would have failed after the first couple of strikes. Secondly, I have NEVER seen a sword SLICE through plate-- even a small gash. Maybe some of the more experienced guys have, but I can certainly say that I haven't. |
Hello Jeremiah,
That scene is actually my second favorite duel in the series, my favorite being Oberyn Martell vs Gregoer Clegane. I thought it did a good job of showcasing the fighters' personalities and was also very well done from a technical standpoint. Bronn makes a lot of cuts against Vardis, but none of them penetrate the plate or even really injure the knight. What they do is cut creases and notches in his armor, which is much more believable. They are meant to provoke Vardis into a rash attack, which eventually does happen. The only time Bronn deals a serious injury through the plate is when he delievers a hard strike to the knight's elbow, smashing into the thinner metal at the joint, and even then it does not really cut through. Vardis is finally killed when Bronn pins him to the ground and thrusts through the mail at the armpit (cringe), again, very historically plausible.
Hello Bruce,
Thanks for the Martin interview, that's very cool to read! One of the things I love about Westeros is that it has been stagnated in a feudal period for thousands of years, which allows a lot of disparate and interesting arms and armor to accumulate in one place.
|
|
|
|
|
Gabriel Stevens
|
| Posted: Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Just a quick update, the apparent US release for the next book is November 8th. Martin has it posted on his site.
|
|
  |
|
Roger Hooper
|
| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gabriel Stevens wrote: | | Just a quick update, the apparent US release for the next book is November 8th. Martin has it posted on his site. |
Ama zon now gives that November release date as well. Don't be surprised if the book doesn't appear on the shelves at that time. I remember Feast of Crows was to appear last December, then January, then this coming July.
Grrrrr!!!!  
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bruce Wilson
|
| Posted: Wed 29 Jun, 2005 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
True, but in the past when the book was unfinished the on-line sellers have been just dreadful at putting up random, unsubstantiated "publication" dates.
GRRM always made a point of saying that any date given by Ama zon (or whoever) was meaningless unless he himself had actually come out and confirmed that he'd finished writing.
At least now we actually know from GRRM himself that the manuscript is done and that the the November publication date is the one given by the publishers. I'll still only believe it when I see the book in my hand but this information is at least much more concrete than anything we've had before.
|
|
|
|
|
Roger Hooper
|
| Posted: Sat 06 Aug, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
The publishing date for A Feast for Crows has been postponed again. According to Amazon, it will be coming out on November 8th.
|
|
|
|
|
Gabriel Stevens
|
| Posted: Sat 06 Aug, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Roger that was the only official publishing date that came out as far as I can tell, at least the only date Martin ever put on his site. Amazon has a nasty way of posting publishing dates months and even years before books are actually finished, which is what happened with this book.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 08 Aug, 2005 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Oh yeah, I remember... I said I'd never start reading an unfinished series again... dagnabbit!
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
|
David R. Glier
|
| Posted: Mon 08 Aug, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Et tu, Brute? 
At least the re-read value on this one is especially high! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 09 Aug, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| David R. Glier wrote: | Et tu, Brute?
At least the re-read value on this one is especially high! |
Sigh... yeah I guess I am what you would call a slow learner. I swore up and down I'd never start an unfinished series again after I started Memory, Sorrow and Thorn and then had to wait like 4 years for Tad Williams to finish it. Then I said the same thing after I started the Wheel of Time. Except of course it appears that Jordan is never actually going to finish it and in the case of that series I could really care less at this point. If he finished it tomorrow I'm not sure I'd bother. Now this Martin guy seems to be something less then dependable... sigh...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
Gabriel Stevens
|
| Posted: Tue 09 Aug, 2005 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Don't worry Russ, according to George the next book is about half written so there shouldn't be as much of a delay. The problem that arose with this one is that George had to completely restructure his narrative from what he had planned to do because it wasn't working. I trust the guy if for the simple fact that he's said he doesn't want to be Jordan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 09 Aug, 2005 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Gabriel Stevens wrote: | | Don't worry Russ, according to George the next book is about half written so there shouldn't be as much of a delay. The problem that arose with this one is that George had to completely restructure his narrative from what he had planned to do because it wasn't working. I trust the guy if for the simple fact that he's said he doesn't want to be Jordan. |
Now THAT is good news. Anyone that doesn't want to be like Jordan goes up ten points automatically in my estimation.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
|
Patrick Kelly
|
| Posted: Tue 09 Aug, 2005 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
There's no problem with criticizing the work guys, but let's make sure this conversation doesn't get personal.
Just a helpful reminder.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 10 Aug, 2005 5:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Incidentally does this mean that we get the whole book or are we getting a delayed data AND only half the book as was suggested earlier?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
Gordon Clark
|
| Posted: Wed 10 Aug, 2005 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Incidentally does this mean that we get the whole book or are we getting a delayed data AND only half the book as was suggested earlier? |
I think the real point is that there should never have been an earlier date for the "half" book. I belive that Amazon just jumped the gun. So yes - delayed and "half" book only, but delayed only because of the speculative date published first.
|
|
|
|
|
Glen S. Ramsay
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 91
|
| Posted: Fri 12 Aug, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I too have read the first three Ice and Fire books, and after the wait for this one am wrestling with the idea of waiting till the series is complete and then reading all of them over again.
To get me through the wait, I started reading another in-progress series (D'oh!), the "Tales of the Malazan" books by Steven Erikson, but fortunately it has been consistent with a new book being released roughly each year. The series is slated for 10 books total, and number 6 is due out this month in hardcover. I'm reading #5 now in paperback. It's a fantastic series, and I highly recommend it to Martin fans who want something to read between Martin books. It now actually rivals the "Ice and Fire" series as my personal favorite. It is dark and complex, with multi-dimensional characters and interwoven storylines in a world rich with culture and history (the author is a scholared anthropologist and archaeologist).
Anyway, if anyone's interested, here's a link to the first book, and you can find info about it and the other books from there...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076531...48-5208915
Actually, here are some detailed reviews of the first five books, from SFSite:
Book 1: http://www.sfsite.com/06a/gard58.htm
Book 2: http://www.sfsite.com/09a/dg88.htm
Book 3: http://www.sfsite.com/01b/mi120.htm
Book 4: http://www.sfsite.com/02a/hc145.htm
Book 5: http://www.sfsite.com/08b/mt182.htm
Book 1 is good (I appreciated it alot more the second time I read it, due to the complexity of the story...), but Book 2 and 3 are the ones that really got me hooked...
|
|
|
|
|
Gabriel Stevens
|
| Posted: Sat 13 Aug, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I think Gordon hit the nail on the head. George was always very forthcoming on his website about the progress of the book, and repeatedly warned to pay no attention to Amazon's publishing dates. Yes he's decided to break the book in to two parts, basically because he wanted to keep the manuscript to a certain length. He's also said that because of this the next book is already half written so I guess that's one bright side to the story. It could be worse. Jack Vance waited twelve years or so to complete his Demon Princes saga.
|
|
|
|
|
Roger Hooper
|
| Posted: Sat 13 Aug, 2005 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gabriel Stevens wrote: | | It could be worse. Jack Vance waited twelve years or so to complete his Demon Princes saga. |
And Philip Jose Farmer waited 16 years to write the last book in "The World of Tiers" series - so long a time that I had lost interest and never bothered to read it.
|
|
|
|
|
Gabriel Stevens
|
| Posted: Sat 13 Aug, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Well there is that possibility
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic