Hi everyone, I have just started cutting routines with my valiant armoury war sword (it stinks). I have heard all sorts of cutting target ideas; tatami mats, newspaper, pool noodles, german pipe, meat, bottles, ect. I was wondering in the woods with my sword and came across a huge batch of sumacs, now, I have a really high respect for nature, and love walking in the middle of nowhere, but I couldn't resist :D . I made about 15 cuts, most of which were pretty nice. I was wondering if soft young saplings are alright to cut. I've heard constantly in every sword safety section, "never ever hit a tree with your sword", now, before i knew that (stupid me), or anything else about good swords, I started hacking into a 4'' thick tree with my really cheap $42 fantasy sword. After a month or so, the centimeter thick tang broke.

Is it ok for your sword to cut soft saplings like sumacs?

I might start growing them just for cutting practice. :D.

Feel free to share your thought....I have a 40' by 20' area in my woods full of saplings with my name on it. :D

-Michael F.

Michael, as a fellow newbie to the world of swords, I'm certainly no expert, but I have read enough in the last few months to form what I believe to be a fairly sound opinion. Swords were designed as anti-personnel devices. Consider that no part of the human body is as hard as a thick tree branch. Even live bone tissue is fairly soft in relation to a branch. Bone is hollow; whereas, tree branches are solid and very fibrous. Even if you lived 600 years ago, and were fighting against somebody in maille, that maille would be padded by the soft human tissue underneath. You may in fact be able to get away with hacking at branches ocassionaly with a very heavy-duty sword (such as an albion or Atrim), but I certainly don't think there's anything to recommend them as everyday targets.
I would personally suggest that you stick with the other targets you mentioned. They are far more suitable for cutting practice.

Just my two cents,

Scott :)

P.S. Having been born and raised in the Phoenix area, my experience with trees is fairly limited :lol: , so I don't know how soft a sumac sapling is. I can only say that as a general rule, hacking at trees with a sword is frowned upon. :)

I'm not an expert by a long short, but I think small enough sapling and a decent sword, then you're in for no harm. Just make sure to clean up your blade when you are done.

A sword is not an axe, as your first experience should show you.

I've had to resharpen a machete after cutting a bunch of saplings. It's made for hacking saplings, and it still took a beating.

I'm thinking I'll pass...

My $0.02 worth.

Thanks everyone, I'm never going to do that again! Suprisingly, The blade of my sword was not knicked or dulled, and it isnt as sharp as a proper sword should be. Now that I know this, I'll never hack into any tree, especially with those cheap valiant armoury swords. I was dumb enough to buy one, It is true that buying cheap things will cost more in the end! I'm going for an albion, and for now, I'll use the newspaper.

I tried to use the newspaper last night, I soaked it over night, I can make really good cuts with saplings, but not with newspaper.

If anyone could give me some pointers on how to cut properly, (or how long to soak the newspaper), that would be great.

Thanks!,
Michael F.

I just split some firewood with my CS grosse messer. It made short work of all the logs (up to 6,5 inch diameter) but the pommel came loose. Maybe I'll buy an Albion knecht to chop wood with. :D

BTW not sure what you mean you were chopping, but Sumac is considered to be much like poison ivy in the US. Could make itching quite a hobby for you if you go cutting it again. Unless its a different plant you are referring to.

I used my Atrim Type XIIa to cut a whole batch of them. I don't encourage this and I think it largely depends on teh type of sapling you cut. Different woods have different characteristics. All of my cutting was done in the spring when wood tends to be a little softer. I don't know what kind of tree a sumac is ( I am in Louisiana) but I went after Box elders about 1" to 4" in diameter. After about 150 saplings I did manage to crack the handle on the Type XIIa. I didn't experience much scratching but the sword did dull a bit. Now once again, I don't recommend this for cutting practice, but I have to admit I have done it. I have some pics somewhere I'll see if I can find them. I did post quite a few on SFI ( a place I don't visit anymore) so I will see if I can find the thread.

Joel


P.S. My school has the SFI site blocked. Bummer.

Thanks for the notice about the tangs! Just after I read it I said to myself, "i'm not going to use my sword funtionally anymore". About an hour later, I picked it up, tapped it a little on the blade to find the CoP and the pommel just twisted off!!! I was so furious and mad at myself. apparently, it was on it's last legs, the whole hilt assembly is actually just this; slide of everything and superglue it together. My only sword! gone, gone. :cry:. The partially good news it that I had the idea of glueing it back on. I know this was probably dumb, but I went out and found one of the strongest epoxies you can buy. I carefully glued it, and it's probably just as strong as it was before! the only way i'm going to use it now is just to walk around the house with, maybe swing it (just a little) and keep it on display. the glue said it holds up to 1500 lbs, so i think it'll hold a 2lbs pommel.

I should have known not to buy something cheap.

After this incident, my parents have finally accepted my decision to buy a sempach, (after i save up a little bit more).

I'm sure this time, that my next sword will actually have some care put into it. :)

Thanks,
-Michael F.

Hang that "sword" on the wall and forget about it. Under no circumstances should you swing it around, even a "little". Sword's are not held together by epoxy for a good reason, it doesn't work.

Before you spend a considerable amount of money on a sword I would strongly suggest that you spend a bit of it on books. Buy a few of the books by Ewart Oakeshott, as well as a few books on swordsmanship (available from Chivalry Bookshelf and others). Also spend some time reading the articles in our features section.

Spend some time educating yourself because knowledge is power. Learn what a sword is and isn't, what it can and cannot do. Learn that it's not a toy, it's a weapon. Learn to treat it with the respect it deserves. Then go buy a sword. This process will help you avoid costly and potentially unhealthy mistakes.

Thanks for the help patrick. I was thinking about that myself. I am debating on saving up for a sempach, or buying the books and taking around $100 to buy them. I'll probably borrow one from the library. I was wondering if you could throw out some suggestions on any good arms & armour books it would be highly appreciated. I have total respect for swords, but the only one's i've had were really bad. :( Sorry if I gave you the impression that I would try and use my sword funtionally again, it's hanging on display with it's sheath in my room. :).

I wish i could get the money for an albion.......stupid child labor Laws...


-Michael F.

Actually a great many Indian Tulwars were held together only with epoxy and as far as cutting saplings goes it can be a very effective cutting exercise if you know what you are doing. That said never drive a sword into something without knowing that you can cut cleanly through it. A sword that becomes wedged is very easily damaged and the risk becomes greater as the blade becomes longer, narrower or thinner (a sempach would probably be a terrible candidate in spite of the quality of its construction). I usually only use very short swords like Qamas, kindjals and khyber knives on wooden targets because their relative rigidity prevents my twisting the blade if it sticks but a thin enough soft enough sapling should be safe for a longer cutting sword. Just experiment wit the smaller/stouter/cheaper stuff first to develope a comparative scale of what you can easily sever. Start slowly and work your way up through varying grades of resistance while perfecting your form(preferably on pool noodles or thin cardboard tubes first) and keeping in mind that you never want to discover what a good sword can't cut through.

Patrick is right about the literature. I would start with Oakeshott's Archeology of Weapons.

Cutting saplings isn't something I'd recommend as a normal practice, especially with a "good" sword let alone with a sword of questional durability. I personally have cut very green alder saplings though with a diameter of 1" or a little over. Never anything thicker than that. Primarliy I didn't want to risk torquing the blade and putting a set in it, secondly it would really prove nothing about the swords cutting ability you couldn't already learn from other mediums or saplings of small (1") diameter. I wouldn't recommend cutting late summer, fall or winter wood. Most of these were sharpened DT's. Springtimes best if you must, but probably shouldn't. Black Berry briars make an interesting challenge, and they can bight back!

Conscientiousness is the key as wells as critical judgement. I never damaged a sword cutting in the above manner. The only time that happened was against an alfalfa bale :blush: . Long story, anyways that's my experience.

I have gone after young Vine Maples in my back yard with a couple of different swords.
First with a Del Tin Dark Ages sword using single handed downward strokes that made
better progress then I ever got with a machete doing the same. The edge was slightly
dulled and a few passes with a stone saw that right. Then I tried my Regent with two
hands and at first was non plussed, then I found the sweet spot for Vine Maple on the
blade and made very short work of them, the blade no worse for the wear. Having said
that there is really no practicality to yard work with a sword, you still have the stubs and
roots to dig out.

Best,
Doug