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Aaron Lukefahr




Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri 03 Apr, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Need help taking sport armor and getting historic...         Reply with quote

OI originally joined int a league to do full contact outfighting, ala IMCF. OI had very little knowledge of the historical backgrounds, I just knew that I wanted plate armor and a helmet that not commonly saw in the list. I ended up with kind of a hodge-podge suit of plate. OI have transitioned over moire towards HMB. I'm also starting to get interested into doing more historical accurate events.

I need some assistance in tracking down some historical references. I haven't been able to come up with any helpful ones on my own. With that said, I don't think I need to make any adjustments to my general harness (arms, legs, & cuirass). I have dated my pauldrons to 1450-ish and sallet to 1480-90. I'm positive the sallet is going to be too late for the rest my harness. I'm willing to get a new helm and pauldrons to make a historical, yet sport legal, full plate suit.

Don't beat me up over any nuances. I need to get where I want to be, that's why I'm asking for your help. My only request is that the helm NOT be a hounscull, pigface, etc. Grand bascinets are fine, but I'd like to have something that can maintain head movement.



 Attachment: 85.71 KB
ref sallet 1.jpg
This is my sallet reference

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This is my current kit, sans helmet [ Download ]

 Attachment: 127.65 KB
This is the Churburg reference (with now known later pauldrons) [ Download ]

Fighter in the ACS, ACW, and HMB
Member of the Louisville Royals
Club - Derby City Armored Combat
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Ed W.




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 27 Mar 2016

Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun 05 Apr, 2020 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Aaron,

I don't do HMB and aren't familiar with the gear rules so can't comment on that aspect of it.

To go down a more historic route though, I think you really need to pinpoint where you're going with this kit. What you've got is all typical italian, so that's a start, but I think you really need to narrow down the time period to a ten year window, eg 1430-1440 and stick to that quite tightly.

Before investing in any more plate I would suggest getting some new under garments. A thinner and more accurate arming doublet, and ditch the padded hose in favour of regular joined hose.

Next I'd be adding some mail. A skirt for sure, and there are various options for the upper body in the early 15th C, but at least some gussets for the armpits and inside elbows. Also a standard/collar.

For a helmet, an armet would be the obvious way to go. The Lionardo armet at the Met Museum is dated 1440. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24686

hope this helps, good luck with it.

Ed.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,290

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ed W. wrote:
Hi Aaron,

I don't do HMB and aren't familiar with the gear rules so can't comment on that aspect of it.

To go down a more historic route though, I think you really need to pinpoint where you're going with this kit. What you've got is all typical italian, so that's a start, but I think you really need to narrow down the time period to a ten year window, eg 1430-1440 and stick to that quite tightly.

Before investing in any more plate I would suggest getting some new under garments. A thinner and more accurate arming doublet, and ditch the padded hose in favour of regular joined hose.

Next I'd be adding some mail. A skirt for sure, and there are various options for the upper body in the early 15th C, but at least some gussets for the armpits and inside elbows. Also a standard/collar.

For a helmet, an armet would be the obvious way to go. The Lionardo armet at the Met Museum is dated 1440. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24686

hope this helps, good luck with it.

Ed.


I understand the need for mail in a reenactment kit, but not for bohurt. It adds no protection against blunt force but it adds unnecessary weight.
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Aaron Lukefahr




Location: Louisville, KY
Joined: 19 Mar 2020

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ed W. wrote:
Hi Aaron,

I don't do HMB and aren't familiar with the gear rules so can't comment on that aspect of it.

To go down a more historic route though, I think you really need to pinpoint where you're going with this kit. What you've got is all typical italian, so that's a start, but I think you really need to narrow down the time period to a ten year window, eg 1430-1440 and stick to that quite tightly.

Before investing in any more plate I would suggest getting some new under garments. A thinner and more accurate arming doublet, and ditch the padded hose in favour of regular joined hose.

Next I'd be adding some mail. A skirt for sure, and there are various options for the upper body in the early 15th C, but at least some gussets for the armpits and inside elbows. Also a standard/collar.

For a helmet, an armet would be the obvious way to go. The Lionardo armet at the Met Museum is dated 1440. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24686

hope this helps, good luck with it.

Ed.

Roughly, I have been shooting for a 25 year window, but the more narrow the better. I have been shooting for 1410-1435. It is an Italian kit, but I need pauldrons and a helm to match.

I have plans to get maille voiders and a skirt. They won't be useful in buhurt, but I want the authenticity of the maille for faires and demos. I have been looking at going to a doublet and chosen. I think the chausses are restrictive.

I like the armet, but I have been looking at some grand bascinets for buhurt. Armets are built for mounted combat and the kit is used in foot combat.

Fighter in the ACS, ACW, and HMB
Member of the Louisville Royals
Club - Derby City Armored Combat
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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 560

PostPosted: Yesterday at 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From reading your self-description, I was expecting to see much worse. You don't have a bad overall look. As has been commented, an early armet would be the easiest way to go. Grand bacinets can be tricky because most modern makers don't understand them, so they do not build them properly. They have to be big enough in the right places to turn your head inside them, which means you can pad the inside of the skull but you can get away with wearing nothing on your head, which is very nice in warm weather. Since they do not turn with your head, the size of the face opening must be MUCH larger than an ordinary helm; think how your head is turned a bit to one side when you take a stance against an opponent. This of course implies that the visor must have eye and breath holes that go around the sides much further than an ordinary helm, since you will often be looking out of the thing at a 45 degree angle. There are not many early grand bacinets around, but plenty of sculpture and artwork to draw from for your time period. Interestingly, there is plenty of art showing grand bacinets that look very much like this later example, which dates from about 1510, though with the rectangular holes more horizontal. Making it with a separate back of the neck would be easier and therefore cheaper than this one that has the skull and neck in one piece. I would give it a bit more room in the back of the skull, since some of the fellows at the Royal Armouries used to complain that the ones they had did not allow them to tilt their heads back and shrug their shoulders a bit to deal with fatigue. Personally, if I were to fight 'bohurt', the helm I would wear would be a grand bacinet, since the odds of concussion and neck damage are so high. No problem in a GB.


 Attachment: 100.9 KB
GrandBacinetMetDiagonalHoles.jpg


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