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Gordon Frye
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 Posted: Tue 22 Mar, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, 3/4 Musketeers (with all of it's flaws, its still a great movie(s), the Duellists, Master and Commander, Warlord, etc. "Waterloo" had some cool bits in it too, but the whole thing of hundreds of Cuirassiers going over the mythical cliff was a bit much, though true to 19th Century French revisionism. I liked "The Last Valley", but there were too many weirdnesses that had nothing to do with the 30-Years War that it has to be taken on it's own.
Speaking of 17th Century subjects, there is of course, "Cromwell" with Richard Harris. The scene of the Horse contacting Pikes was excellent! Hard to beat the costuming and weapons either. There are also a number of Polish films set in the 17th Century, such as "With Fire and Sword" and "The Deluge" that are top-notch from a cool stuff/cool actions point of view. "The Deluge" has one of the best Cavalry Charges I've ever seen on film.
BTW, Patrick, since I read "Ivanhoe" long before I saw the film, I actually know how to spell the Antagonist's name!
"Brian du Bois Gilbert" Cool character, I always thought, not an evil person, just on the wrong side of things and a bit too impetuous for his own good.
Cheers,
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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David Evans
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: |
Speaking of 17th Century subjects, there is of course, "Cromwell" with Richard Harris. The scene of the Horse contacting Pikes was excellent! Hard to beat the costuming and weapons either.
Gordon |
Cromwell? Good Costuming? You have got to be kidding me! It was pure c**P of the worst kind. The worst victorian fantasy coctume ever!
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Cromwell? Good Costuming? You have got to be kidding me! It was pure c**P of the worst kind. The worst victorian fantasy coctume ever! |
Okay, well, it's been 20 years since I saw it... I still like the cuirassier smacking into the pike line, though.
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| David Evans wrote: | | Gordon Frye wrote: |
Speaking of 17th Century subjects, there is of course, "Cromwell" with Richard Harris. The scene of the Horse contacting Pikes was excellent! Hard to beat the costuming and weapons either.
Gordon |
Cromwell? Good Costuming? You have got to be kidding me! It was pure c**P of the worst kind. The worst victorian fantasy coctume ever! |
Don't be so belligerent David.
If you disagree tell us why the costuming was inaccurate. Help make this place educational not confrontational.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | BTW, Patrick, since I read "Ivanhoe" long before I saw the film, I actually know how to spell the Antagonist's name! |
I've read it too! I couldn't find my copy before I typed that, and I did look for it!
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 10:11 am Post subject: |
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How about Kenneth Branagh's, Henry V? It has been awhile since I've seen it, so I'd have to look at it again before I recommend it as an example of historical accuracy. I do remember that the Earl of Essex spent a lot of unnecessary time in his plate armor, like the knights in Boorman's Excalibur.
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | How about Kenneth Branagh's, Henry V? It has been awhile since I've seen it, so I'd have to look at it again before I recommend it as an example of historical accuracy. I do remember that the Earl of Essex spent a lot of unnecessary time in his plate armor, like the knights in Boorman's Excalibur. |
You say that like its a bad thing! 
Brian Blessed quietly seething his king's scorn at the French court, then later mace bashing the snot out of some poor sod at Agincourt. It made the movie more realistic than Shakespeare's treatment of the material warrants.
Anyway, the fighting was a joke, but the hail-storms of arrows seemed realistic. Little else to recommend it though.
For a logical presentation of foot combat, I vote for Robin & Marion. Sean Connery and Nicol Williamson wading through soldiers on their climb out of Nottingham Castle was very inspiring. Some of the middle aged warrior stuff, like the scene waking up in the forest, cuts close to the quick these days.... 
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Sean Flynt
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Jay Barron
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Of movies not mentioned yet, I love the 1997 BBC miniseries of Ivanhoe. It's six hours long but fun from beginning to end. The combat, costumes, armor and weapons are quite well done too.
Here's the link to the IMDB site: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118354/
I also really liked Elizabeth with Geoffrey Rush and Cate Blanchett. Again, costumes, armor and weapons were fantastic.
Constant and true.
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Alex Oster
Location: Washington and Yokohama Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 410
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | How about Kenneth Branagh's, Henry V? It has been awhile since I've seen it, so I'd have to look at it again before I recommend it as an example of historical accuracy. I do remember that the Earl of Essex spent a lot of unnecessary time in his plate armor, like the knights in Boorman's Excalibur. |
I remember seeing the dvd release for it and being shocked to see the remarketing ended up having the english king in french armor on the cover...
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh, I wish I wasn't so picky about historic costuming. it's difficult to watch a lot of these movies because, well, there are so few of them that lack glaring mistakes. Often times, the later period ones are much better, but anything from the Renaissance and before seems to be a mish-mash of time periods, bad fabric choices, and most of all, bad fit. But, of course, none of this matters outside of the exercise of talking about them in that context. These movies are meant to be entertainment, not items of historical study. And so even the most picky of us, myself especially, must understand and accept the intent of the presentation and be able to fit within that context.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | Ahh, I wish I wasn't so picky about historic costuming. it's difficult to watch a lot of these movies because, well, there are so few of them that lack glaring mistakes. Often times, the later period ones are much better, but anything from the Renaissance and before seems to be a mish-mash of time periods, bad fabric choices, and most of all, bad fit. But, of course, none of this matters outside of the exercise of talking about them in that context. These movies are meant to be entertainment, not items of historical study. And so even the most picky of us, myself especially, must understand and accept the intent of the presentation and be able to fit within that context. |
I agree. From just seeing this movies trailer and website I can see glaring errors in many of the fine details. Being a professional observer by trade doesn't help either. The problem is that I love movies. My mother loved going to the cinema and I inherited that passion from her. It's one of my main sources of enjoyment. Consequently, a long time ago I decided to lighten up on the nit picking as it ruins the experience. Nowadays I don't get too concerned about it if the show exhibits high production values and is at least true to the spirit of the time and place being portrayed.
And I've never seen a movie that's set within my main periods of interest that was really, really correct, but it's just entertainment.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: |
And I've never seen a movie that's set within my main periods of interest that was really, really correct, but it's just entertainment. |
What is sad is that I've seen a number of films in which the BACKGROUND people are very well clothed and accoutred, but then the Principals are just totally off base in their clothing or, more commonly, hairstyles. Hollywood is very much focused on the silhouette and hairstyles of the day the film was made, much more than those of the period depicted. Some is the Actor/Actress, some is the Costume Designer, but mostly it's the Director at fault.
But then, as they always say "It's only a movie".
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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The final hurdle I've had to overcome is my theatrical background. As many know I was an actor and a fight director back in the "bad old days". After I left that profession it was years before I could go to a movie or a play and enjoy the production from an entertainment standpoint, and not focus on the technical stuff as well as the "artistic" choices.
In spite of any possible issues I'm really excited about this movie. The crusading era has always been one of my main periods of interest, and there are far too few movies made that depict it.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | The final hurdle I've had to overcome is my theatrical background. As many know I was an actor and a fight director back in the "bad old days". After I left that profession it was years before I could go to a movie or a play and enjoy the production from an entertainment standpoint, and not focus on the technical stuff as well as the "artistic" choices. |
I know the problem! Always looking at stuff saying "Gee, I wonder how they did that", or "Man, they sure screwed that one up, probably thought they could fix it in post!" or something rather than enjoying the film for it's own sake. I really have trouble sitting through a movie, which drives my wife nuts, since she's a regular conneseur. But then, she aslo likes Mystery Science Theatre, so what can I say...
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 23 Mar, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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My wife is still a highschool drama teacher (we met in the theatre) so you can imagine what a pair we make!
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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David Evans
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| Posted: Thu 24 Mar, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | [
Don't be so belligerent David.
If you disagree tell us why the costuming was inaccurate. Help make this place educational not confrontational.
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Sorry. Didn't mean to sound that belligerent! To place all this in context. I've been reenacting the English Civil War for 20 years now with Col.Valentine Walton's regiment of the Fairfax Battlia. We're so good at our task of learning, training and perfoming the correct drill of a Pike and shot regiment of the 1640s that we have been honoured with displaying our drill in the Tower of London for the last 10 years.
The whole film was the worst example of Victorian Stereotyping. Truly in the style of all Puritans wore black and big cotton cake dollies as collars and were miserable. All Royalists were romantic and brightly coloured. The costume was miserably made, floppy, misstyled and generally vile. Some of the actors were way too old for the role they played. Richard Harris was miscast. Prince Rupert's wig was big enough to hide small houses under and out of period by 50 years. The battle scenes were farcical with obvious fibreglass cannon. The red plumes were vile. Pike never break down and starting running around like brawling football fans. Alec Guiness mincing round like Oscar Wilde
And all that just from memory!
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Sean Flynt
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| Posted: Thu 24 Mar, 2005 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| David Evans wrote: | | The whole film was the worst example of Victorian Stereotyping. Truly in the style of all Puritans wore black and big cotton cake dollies as collars and were miserable. All Royalists were romantic and brightly coloured. The costume was miserably made, floppy, misstyled and generally vile. Some of the actors were way too old for the role they played. Richard Harris was miscast. Prince Rupert's wig was big enough to hide small houses under and out of period by 50 years. The battle scenes were farcical with obvious fibreglass cannon. The red plumes were vile. Pike never break down and starting running around like brawling football fans. Alec Guiness mincing round like Oscar Wilde. And all that just from memory! |
So you didn't care for the picture?
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Thu 24 Mar, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| David Evans wrote: |
Sorry. Didn't mean to sound that belligerent! To place all this in context. I've been reenacting the English Civil War for 20 years now with Col.Valentine Walton's regiment of the Fairfax Battlia. We're so good at our task of learning, training and perfoming the correct drill of a Pike and shot regiment of the 1640s that we have been honoured with displaying our drill in the Tower of London for the last 10 years.
The whole film was the worst example of Victorian Stereotyping. Truly in the style of all Puritans wore black and big cotton cake dollies as collars and were miserable. All Royalists were romantic and brightly coloured. The costume was miserably made, floppy, misstyled and generally vile. Some of the actors were way too old for the role they played. Richard Harris was miscast. Prince Rupert's wig was big enough to hide small houses under and out of period by 50 years. The battle scenes were farcical with obvious fibreglass cannon. The red plumes were vile. Pike never break down and starting running around like brawling football fans. Alec Guiness mincing round like Oscar Wilde
And all that just from memory! |
Thanks for clarifying. From what I know of, the Fairfax Battalia is among the very best, if not THE best, of the ECW units out there, so you are no doubt in good company. I certainly can't disagree on what you say, and again, it's been 20 years since I saw it, but like many other films it was a product of it's time and compared to most of the other fluff abounding was at least an attempt to be historically accurate. They may have failed miserably, but it was certainly an attempt, rather than simply coming up with wildly inaccurate fantasies (they were simply inaccurate fantasies ). And although (memory getting clearer here) the Horse was for the most part just galloping around aimlessly (as I note is the fashion in most reenactments, too) at least there was the one scene showing actual contact between Horse and Pikes. THAT is a rare phenomenon in film, since in general they "shoot" the horse with a trip-wire (or the stunt-man reins the horse down), the Stuntman "dies" and then the horse jumps up and scampers off. It was good to see a man take a solid hit from a solid instrument (pike) and go down, rather than the run of the mill standards. An expensive and dangerous gag to do, prior to CGI.
But there are a LOT of other films that are horrid in the extreme, with perhaps one or two saving graces. However, I am pretty convinced that just about the best historical film I've seen, or had the honour of being involved in, was "Ride with the Devil". Not much new in the arms department, and some dumb stuff there as well, BUT for clothing and period attitudes, it's hard to beat (if you ignore Jewel, and her hair and attitudes, that is...). Don't get me started on "The Patriot" though...
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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