Posts: 75
Wed 15 Mar, 2017 10:50 am
| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: |
Two-handed flails did see serious military use at times, most notably in the Hussite Wars in the 15th century.
Circa 1600 and on (perhaps earlier too), some Korean cavalry used two-handed flails.
As far as Norman maces go, a blow from horseback from a strong and skilled rider would presumably be enough to at least stun any opposing cavalry soldiers. Writing in the first half of the 15th century, Bertrandon de la Broquière thought Turkish cavalry maces would be able to knock a person unconscious through a helmet if the wielder were "swinging freely" (Galen Kline's 1988 English translation). Western European en-at-arms retained the mace until the pistol generally replaced it and transformed heavy cavalry overall.
On the other hand, some Norman maces may have been a bit light compared with 15th-century Turkish maces or 15th/16th-century European maces. I've seen a number of 16th-century maces that are 3+lbs according to museum records, while some earlier maces were only 1-2lbs. |
Wow! Very detailed Answear, thank you very much!
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said here, and thank you for the brief measurement estimate there, I haven't been able to find Norman mace weights anywhere yet, so that is very useful!
Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia
Mon 17 Apr, 2017 12:32 pm
Nope. Nope. Nope. Two-handed flails were a very different beast from one-handed versions -- and they were actually quite common in Central Europe. They're everywhere in town militia inventories, for instance, and also in illustrations of the Hussite Wars. In fact, two-handed flails and halberds were arguably the iconic weapons of German town militias well into the sixteenth or even the seventeenth century. Note that townsmen, unlike farmers, wouldn't have had to thresh their own grain. Their flails were primarily fighting implements (though not always military since they were also extensively used in internal police duties).
Posts: 3,636 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Mon 17 Apr, 2017 3:59 pm
| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: |
| They're everywhere in town militia inventories,. |
What term is used to denote them in these inventories? How do we know that this term is describing what we know as a two-handed flail?
Posts: 170 Location: Michigan
Mon 17 Apr, 2017 8:09 pm
Sorry I am late to the conversation. Regarding one of the posts in March, could this shape possibly be adjusted to look like a heart shaped mace? (I am intrigued by the idea.)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Indian_shishpar_%28flanged_mace%29.jpg/117px-Indian_shishpar_%28flanged_mace%29.jpg
Or by swelling this shape?
http://www.ashokaarts.com/img/product_images/...9-4629.jpg
Maybe this one is closest to a simple heart shape:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?...&stc=1
Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia
Tue 18 Apr, 2017 12:08 pm
| Dan Howard wrote: |
| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | They're everywhere in town militia inventories,. |
What term is used to denote them in these inventories? How do we know that this term is describing what we know as a two-handed flail? |
I'll have to dig deep into my reading pile to find this because I read that a fair amount of time ago, so for the moment I'll just link to the HROARR gallery of artwork depicting flails in what could (mostly) be reasonably interpreted in martial contexts. Worth noting that the majority are two-handed: http://hroarr.com/articles-reviews/galleries/pflegeln-flails/
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