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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 7:05 pm    Post subject: Hallstatt C Swords w/ Abstract from J.D. Cowen         Reply with quote

Hi all…

On another thread I posted a couple of pictures of a beautiful Hallstatt sword bent into a circle. There seemed to be a little interest in this sword. The pictures came from Jeroen Zuiderwijk website of museum photos. A must see for anyone interested in archeology… especially swords.

http://1500bc.com/rijks_museum_oudheden/index.html

Anton di Vries was kind enough to do the leg work and found this website:

http://www.siteclx.nl/rmo/index.php/do-collec...rijkevorst

Here is the text related to this find:

“Dating from: approx. 800 B.C., material: bronze (urn), wood, iron and gold (sword), height: 50 cm (urn), 46 cm (sword), found in Oss (Dutch province of Noord-Brabant)

The ‘chieftain of Oss’, who died almost three thousand years ago, must have been a remarkable man, judging from the treasures and the exotic nature of the objects found in his grave. In 1933, when workers were clearing a stretch of heath land near Oss to make room for a caravan camp, they found the urn (or situla) of the 'king'.

The urn itself turned out to be an extraordinary specimen from the Alpine region. Apparently, the contacts with that region, which until then had been rare, intensified at that time. One of the objects found in the urn was a gold encrusted sword. It was bended double, so that it fitted in the urn. This treasure, the large number of additional gifts and the size of the grave, suggest that an important man was buried here in 800 B.C. Probably, the chieftain of Oss was a regional leader from the early iron age.”

ks



 Attachment: 53.9 KB
HallstattC.HatPomCircleIronBladeAllJz.jpg
Hallstatt C Hat Pommel Sword

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HallstattC.HatPomCirlcleWoodHiltGoldInlayJz.jpg
Hallstatt C "Cheiftain of Oss" Sword

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HallstattC.HatPomCircleWoodHiltIronBladeJz.jpg
Hallstatt C Iron Sword, Wood Grip with Gold Inlay

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a partial copy of a monograph by J.D. Cowen. It is entitled “The Hallstatt Sword of Bronze: on the Continent and in Britain.” While on the subject, I thought I would summarize some of his findings and post a few pictures of the Hallstatt C swords I have. The pictures come primarily from Jeroen’s site linked above, The Museum of London website and the Nederland Archeological center’s site:

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/

LINK


The Hallstatt swords (as well as the culture and archeological period) gets its name from the many graves from the type location along the shores of Lake Hallstatt in Austria. The Hallstatt period ranges from the 8th to the 5th centuries BC. The Hallstatt period is the beginning of the Iron Age in Europe and the first phase of the Celtic culture.

The design of Hallstatt swords clearly build upon the older flange-hilted swords in bronze. In fact they are the last of their kind to be made in bronze. It is this transitional phase (Hallstatt C) between bronze and Iron swords that gets much of the attention. During this period from about 720 B.C. to 600 B.C. both bronze and iron swords are found together. It is also at this time that Hallstatt swords begin to show their distinguishing characteristics:

1. The long blade is leaf-shaped and heavy, with a broad neck, and the greatest width unusually low down towards the point.
2. The ricasso is always short, with a notch greatly varying in depth.
3. The point is often terminated in a characteristic blunt triangular formation, of which the sides are drawn at an angle of 45 degrees to the axis of the blade; and is, accordingly, wholly inappropriate for employment in thrusting.
4. The tang itself always swells, sometimes quite sharply, to a point of greatest width somewhat below the center. It is, generally speaking, flat; that is without flanges. But a flanged effect is often produced by a slight dishing along the edges.
5. The most usual number of rivets is two, though one is not uncommon; three also occur, but more are exceptional. A peculiarity of their placing is that they tend to be grouped within the wider (that is the lower) end of the tang, leaving a blank space at the top below the pommel-piece.
6. One of the most obvious characteristics is what archeologists call the “pommel-piece.” It is an extension of the tang to fit inside the pommel with a rivet-hole, peg-clefts or hooks to attach and hold the pommel onto the sword hilt. While there were earlier bronze swords with tang extensions for the pommel (pommel tangs… see attachment), the Hallstatt swords were the first with clear design changes to try and fix the pommel to the tang.


The Hallstatt swords have been broken down into the shorter variety (the Gundlingen type) and the longer variety (the Mindelheim type). The shorter Gundlingen type is much more common in the archeological record. Cowen places the number of cataloged Gundlingen types at 240. Yet only 27 examples of the Mindelheim type were known at that time. It is tempting to see the shorter more plain Gundlingen type as an earlier form that developed into the longer more decorative Mindelheim type. However researchers believe that they are contemporary and reflect either a geographic distribution or a class division with the Gundlingen as the working sword of the foot-soldier and the and the Mindelheim as the cavalry sword of the noble class.

ks



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DrHallstattC.GundlingenTypeSword.jpg
Gundlingen Type Sword reproduced in Cowen

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HallstattC.Avn.jpg
Classic Gundlingen Type

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HallstattC.HatPomCircleIronAll1Jz.jpg
Mindelheim type "Chieftain of Oss" sword

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities


Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 26 Feb, 2005 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THE MINDELHEIM TYPE:

Here is Cowen description in part:

“In its characteristic form the type is a large, handsome weapon, with a simple flat tang, and a leaf-shaped blade of elaborate design. The form of the pommel is preserved for us by the survival of a few still in position, and one or two more loose examples. They may fairly be called hat-shaped, being of a conical form, oval on plan, with strongly concave sides, finishing below in a broad brim-band, and above in a flattish, slightly bombe top. The surface may be left quite plain, or ornamented by incised lines in a combination of geometrical and ring-and-dot motifs. The five surviving examples are all of bronze; but, as these practically indestructible articles are so rare, and the means of fixing some such shape to the end of the tang are almost always provided, we can only conclude that the material of which they were normally made was perishable—wood, bone, or ivory. (see attachment)

[footnote: “Pommels of the same form made of iron, sometimes elaborately inlaid with gold or ivory, occur on the long Hallstatt iron swords. Similar bronze pommels fitted to iron swords are known from Beilngries…”]

The flat tang is usually edged by very low thin flanges. The large pommel-piece appears in a variety of devolved forms, but seems originally to have been intended as a tall trapezoid. From its upper edge projects a long thin spike to accommodate, and clinch, the pommel, in one case at least by means of a small bronze cap… (see attachment)

The butt is broad, often with sharply pointed shoulders, and the upper edges usually form a more nearly horizontal line than in any other variety of flange-hilted sword. In no case are more than two rivet-holes recorded in this feature. So far as my observation goes the rivet-heads are frequently spike-punched, never ring-punched."

ks



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HalstattC.HatPomIvoryGrip&PomAmberIronBlade7th.jpg
Hallstatt C with Ivory Pommel with Amber Inlay. Probably part of a "parade sword."

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HallstattC.SpikePomPieceAvn.jpg
Hallstatt C Mindelheim sans pommel to show stabilizing spike and rivet in pommel piece

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities


Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 7:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THE MINDELHEIM TYPE (continued)

In two cases the whole hilt has been encased in bronze. On the sword from Hallstatt (gr. 607) this has been achieved by casting on to the tang and butt—in one operation—side-plates which join around the edges of the tang to form a single enveloping unit. On this the usual rivet-heads are represented by impressed ring-and-dot motifs, set in an arrangement never adopted for genuine rivets on any Hallstatt sword. (see attachment)

On the Kemmathen sword the same intention has been achieved by riveting separate side-plates of bronze on to the hilt, precisely as if they had been side-plates made of wood, or any other material. Upward extensions of each then fit on either side of the pommel-piece into a slot in the under-side of the pommel… (see attachment)

The long blade is leaf-shaped and heavy, with a broad neck, and the greatest width unusually low down towards the point. The ricasso is always short, with a notch greatly varying in depth. The point is terminated in a characteristic blunt triangular formation, of which the sides are drawn at an angle of 45 degrees to the axis of the blade; and is, accordingly, wholly inappropriate for employment in thrusting…”

ks



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DrHallstattC.HatPomGr607.jpg
Hallstatt C Grave 607 hilt cast on

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DrHallstattC.HatPomKemmathenHiltBronzGrip.jpg
Hallstatt C Kemmathen Sword from Cowen

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HallstattC.HatPomKemmathenPj.jpg
Kemmathen sword?
Detail from picture by Peter Johnsson


Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Mindelheim type have an elaborate rounded rib in the center of the blade with decorative ridges (beading replacing earlier grooves) on the blades usually following the outer edges of the blade. While each of the blades has a different design it is this characteristic that is one of the most obvious hallmarks of the Mindelheim type.

Only two of the known Mindelheim swords are less than 800 millimeters (approx. 32 inches). The longest measures 935 millimeters (approx. 38 inches)

Cowen believes that the long heavy blades, with thick necks were being designed to favor a slashing blow over the thrust. The fact that most have blunt, or triangular points would reinforce the idea that these swords were not made for the thrust. Cowen speculates that they are cavalry swords. Some of the finer swords may have been “weapons of parade” and not primarily made for fighting.

More Mindelheim pictures...

ks



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HallstattC.HatPomMatrixJz.jpg
Hallstatt C Mindelheim

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HallstattC.PomJz.jpg
Hallstatt C Hat Pommel

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DrHallstattC.jpg
Hallstatt Mindelheim

Two swords
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One of iron and one of ink
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THE GUNDLINGEN TYPE

Here are some of Cowen’s comments:

“The tang is furnished at the upper end with a pommel-piece, which is the seat of the pommel, a feature not provided on any earlier type of sword.

[Footnote: “The pommel-tang, known from an early state in the history of flage hilted swords, is certainly a device for steadying the pommel, but provides no specific means for attaching it. (see attachment) Such means—rivets or peg holes, hooked ears, and (in the Mindelheim type) spike-tangs—are always present in the pommel-piece, singly or in conjunction, and demonstrates its purpose.]

…What is certain is that the means of fixing the pommel securely were a source of continual concern to the swordsmiths, whose efforts to ensure greater stability led to the series of variations in the form of the pommel-piece which will be more closely examined below. This obvious fussiness at least implies a pommel in some way of more unmanageable shape than the ovoid knob which is the best attested form on the flanged hilts of the Late Bronze Age.

[Footnote: “Since writing the above I have noticed in the collection of the National Museum in Ireland, Dublin, a full-size wooden model of a sword of Gundlingen type, complete with side-plates and pommel. It comes from Cappagh, co. Kerry (no. 1958, 94), and lacks over half the blade and all one edge up to mid-hilt. (see attachment) There is an acute ricasso-notch, and the lower edge of the side-plate is clearly formed. The pommel seems complete; and is of a hat-shape exactly like the pommels of Mindelheim swords, but with a lower crown (i.e. truncated at the top). The under face is flat, and a rounded oval on plan; at the bottom a broad brim-band is faintly indicated, with a lowish conical crown above it. The top seems intended to be flat, but here the piece is somewhat irregularly finished. No decoration is visible. This is the first decisive evidence to become available for the shape of the pommels of Gundlingen swords; and proves that some at all events, even in the extreme south-western corner of Ireland, did have simplified versions of the distinctive Mindelheim hat-form.”]

[Footnote: “A limited number of separately cast antennae-pommels associated with flange-hilted swords are, of course, also known.] (see attachment)

ks



 Attachment: 94.87 KB
FlangeHiltAntennaPom.jpg
Flange Hilt with a separate antenna type pommel
(not Hallstatt)


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HallstattCWoodenModCappaghCoKerry...jpg
Hallstatt Wooden Model from Cappah Co. Kerry

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FlangeHiltPommelTangs.jpg
Flange Hilt Swords with Pommel Tangs (not Hallstatt)

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
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To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THE GUNDLINGEN TYPE (continued)

“The tang itself always swells, sometimes quite sharply, to a point of greatest width somewhat below the center. It is, generally speaking, flat; that is without flanges. But a flanged effect is often produced by a slight dishing along the edges. Occasionally true flanges are found, but these are always law and relatively insignificant… The most usual number of rivets is two, though one is not uncommon; three also occur, but more are exceptional. A peculiarity of their placing is that they tend to be grouped within the wider (that is the lower) end of the tang, leaving a blank space at the top below the pommel-piece…

In general terms these swords are fairly long, but this statement is truer of south Germany and France than of Scandinavia and Britain, where the average length of locally made pieces falls sharply. In the former areas the commonest length is 700-750 millimetres (28-30 inches), with a number between 750 and 800; pieces under 700 millimetres are only half as numerous as those between 700 and 750. In the British Isles, on the other hand, swords under 700 millimetres long are ore than twice as numerous as all others together; in Ireland in particular the disproportion is still greater…”

ks



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HallstattC.1Avn.jpg


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HallstattC.3Avn.jpg


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HallstattC.41w5.4ThamesBrentford700MoL.jpg
Thames find at Brentford Length 41 cm, with 5.4 cm

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities


Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Gundlingen type is divided into subdivisions based on the different strategies of pommel attachment seen in the pommel-piece:

“a-b” are continental forms with rivet hole in pommel-piece.
“c-d” are British forms and involve pegs and hook attachments.
“c” has rivets through with a groove for a rivet of peg to pass through the grip material through the pommel.
“d” has hooks to catch on some ledge on the under face of the pommel as it slides over the extended grip plates with a groove for pommel peg.

Cowen saw a very clear distribution pattern in the Gundlingen subdivisions:

“It is now obvious that Classes a1, a2, and b are ‘continental’, Classes c and d ‘British’. But the distributions show more than that. They show a pattern of concentric arcs centered on southern Germany and Bohemia. This is the archetypal dispersal pattern; and were it not already common ground that the area indicated is the homeland of the western branch of the Hallstatt cultures, the fact could not unreasonably have been deduced from this pattern alone.”

ks



 Attachment: 90.49 KB
DrHallstattC.GundlingenClasses.jpg
Gundlingen Subdivisions based on pommel piece

 Attachment: 94.13 KB
HallstattC.5Avn.jpg


 Attachment: 10.81 KB
HallstattC.52ThamesBrentford700MoL.jpg


Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities


Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cowen suggests that the Gundlingen type may be seen as a less decorative and cheaper (in terms of metal used) version of the Mindelheim type—a simpler copy of the princely sword of the mounted tribal warlord. The narrow necks and relatively light and short blades, considered with the fact that the points are not so uniformly or conspicuously blunt, would suggest that they were dual purpose weapons. They could service as a cavalry weapon if needed but also be used by foot soldiers.

Cowen’s main conclusions are that the longer Hallstatt swords developed as a response to the invasion of the “pre-Scythian horsemen” (Thraco-Cimmerians?) from the east. These swords first appear in the iron rich regions of southern Germany and Bohemia and spread northward and westward all the way to the British Isles. The winged chapes associated with the swords would also support the idea of a cavalry weapon. (see attachment) For this shape of chape would allow the left hand to hold the reins as the wings of the chape hooked behind the left thigh or under the arm or foot to anchor the scabbard and facilitate the drawing of the sword with the right hand.

Considering that these swords were the first cavalry sword to be used in continental Europe they would begin a Celtic design trend that would lead to the Roman Spatha which would influence sword design for another thousand years.

ks



 Attachment: 81.3 KB
DrHallstattC.Grave299.jpg
Hallstatt Grave 99 pommel fragments reconstructed also winged chape

 Attachment: 39.22 KB
DrHallstattC.CasevieilleTumulusGrave.jpg
Casevieille Tumulus Grave Find

 Attachment: 44.8 KB
DrHallstattC.MuschenheimTumulus35..jpg
Muschenheim Tumulus 35 Grave Find

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just a few more British finds... Cowen speaks of a hybridization between the British Ewart Park types and the Hallstatt swords.

ks



 Attachment: 19.92 KB
HallstattC.ThamesRichmondLock&Wier4.jpg
Thames Richmond Lock & Wier

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HallstattC.ThamesRichmondLock&Wier5.jpg
Thames Richmond Lock & Wier

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HalstattC.L70w5.8T11wt748gThamesBreMoL.jpg
Thames Length 70 cm, Width 5.8 cm, Thickness 11 millimeters, Weight 748 grams

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One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Sat 26 Feb, 2005 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks Kirk! It's gonna take a while to manage to file and process all this information in the old brain, though... Great stuff, however, and this really broadens the horizons of my pre-Classical knowledge of weapons! Neat, thanks! The more I learn, the more I realize just how darned little I know!

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
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Folkert van Wijk




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Hallstat         Reply with quote

This guy reproduces a lot of Hallstatt stuff including the kind of sword where talking about here.

http://www.hallstattzeit.de/Rekonstruktion/Schwert/schwert.html

It's nice but my opinion is that he somehowe just mised to catch the lookes of this sword.
It's probably the kind of wood he uses and some other things...
I don't know... Worried

Any how it's an interresting site to check out for those interrested in Hallstatt stuff.

A good sword will only be sharp, in the hands of a wise man…

I am great fan of everything Celtic BC, including there weapons.
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Steve Maly




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would suggest that this be organized into a feature article! Great stuff!
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Hallstat         Reply with quote

Folkert van Wijk wrote:
This guy reproduces a lot of Hallstatt stuff including the kind of sword where talking about here.

http://www.hallstattzeit.de/Rekonstruktion/Schwert/schwert.html

It's nice but my opinion is that he somehowe just mised to catch the lookes of this sword.
It's probably the kind of wood he uses and some other things...
I don't know... Worried

Any how it's an interresting site to check out for those interrested in Hallstatt stuff.



Hey Folkert...

Great link.

Thanks!

ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Maly wrote:
I would suggest that this be organized into a feature article! Great stuff!



Hi Gordon and Steve...

Thanks for the vote of confidence Big Grin

If Nathan and the rest of the team likes the idea of an article, then it should be no problem. I got the Cowen monograph through ILL (inter-library loan). They refused to send the book, but I got them to send a xeroxed copy of the text and figures (skipping several important figures Mad ). And I did not get any of the plates Mad Mad

So.... I am going to try again and see if I can get the whole monograph. To do an article I would certainly need to see the rest of the monograph (and a few others).

However, I think is it good to see how this thread developes... If everyone with any knowledge of the subject will post it will help... For instance Folkert posted a site which had archeological drawings of a couple of Mindelheim swords without the pommel, but still retaining the cap at the end of the pommel piece spike. It is amazing how much they look like the tang buttons on the later La Tene swords. Almost as if the pommel piece spike (pommel tang on top of a pommel piece) was the inspiration to recall an earlier failed attempt at a through the grip tang.

Take care...

ks



 Attachment: 46.68 KB
DrHallstattMindelheimFrankfurtHR.jpg
Mindelheim from Frankfurt with pommel piece spike retaining it button cap.

 Attachment: 22.18 KB
DrHallstattMindelheimHR.jpg
Mindelheim with pommel piece spike retaining button cap.

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 27 Feb, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Hallstat         Reply with quote

Folkert van Wijk wrote:

It's nice but my opinion is that he somehowe just mised to catch the lookes of this sword.
It's probably the kind of wood he uses and some other things...
I don't know... Worried

Any how it's an interresting site to check out for those interrested in Hallstatt stuff.


Interesting site. I wish that I could read German. I agree that the sword hilt doesn't seem "right", though I must admit to knowing very little about the time period.

The scabbard chape looks very impractical - I would expect to catch that on any obstruction - bushes, other peoples clothing. etc.
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Kirk!
For posting these picture of the Cheiftain of Oss Sword,
and that blade 800bc are just a miracle in it self, it's so beautiful,
well, i get goose skin on my arms each time i look at it. Big Grin

Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Anton de Vries





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PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote:

picture of the Chieftain of Oss Sword


The pictures don't do it justice (as often happens...). I'll try to take some hires pictures the next time I go there, if they let me.

That is, if Folkert doesn't beat me to it. Happy
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Kirk Lee Spencer




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PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anton de Vries wrote:
Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote:

picture of the Chieftain of Oss Sword


The pictures don't do it justice (as often happens...). I'll try to take some hires pictures the next time I go there, if they let me.

That is, if Folkert doesn't beat me to it. Happy



Anton...

That would be fantastic!!!

Can't wait to see them.

ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Anton de Vries





Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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Posts: 265

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar, 2005 7:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I went to Leiden today and shot some pics.
Quality is well... not always great. Of course I couldn't use the flash and to make things worse they put some of the best pieces in awful locations. The "Chieftain of Oss" sword was in a little box in a corner! WTF?! #@(&^%)#$&^%! WTF?! Hard to reach, reflection problems, grrr. I'm definitely not happy with those pics.
My cam's limitations are obvious as well. Colors and contrast a bit off, etc. Ouch.
Anyway I did what I could and even had fun. And some pics turned out pretty good. Happy

Most people will have to stretch their monitors a bit as the pics are 2048x1536 resolution JPG's. Eek!
Pictures haven't been edited or rotated, nor did I feel like doing the HTML to make it all look fancy.

These are the "Chieftain of Oss" pics:
http://www.ptah.demon.nl/Leiden/DutchSword2A.JPG
http://www.ptah.demon.nl/Leiden/DutchSword2B.JPG
http://www.ptah.demon.nl/Leiden/DutchSword2C.JPG

I put the other pics I shot in the same directory:
http://www.ptah.demon.nl/Leiden/

Pics are public domain. Go ahead. Abuse them.
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