[John A. Brown]

This question was inspired because I finally got the chance to purchase a katana and also because I keep seeing sword enthusiast (including academicians and historians) argue that European medieval swords weren't heavy at all through forums posts and articles such as this one.

http://knowledgenuts.com/2013/12/10/medieval-...vy-at-all/

Some background, I can benchpress 300 pounds with effort and casually do 100 curls with 20 pound dumbells. I am now physically conditioned enough that a coach told me within a year or two if I keep increasing my weights and stick with a dedicated routine I can start getting into low level amateur powerlifting competitions. So I am in no way a nerdy waste weaboo or an obese geeks who reads hundreds of history books wearing glasses every week.

So when I got my katana by mail, it felt much heavy for its size. I could barely swing the thing and even just holding it with two hands felt awkward, one hand felt too heavy. When I checked the weighing scale I was so fucking shocked it was only 2 pounds! I could not believe just holding it felt like 50 pounds.

Now I'll grant my katana is one of those cheap made-in-china models. But still considering all the articles about European longswords weighing two pounds and not being heavy as Conan the Barbarian and other movies portray them, I was so surprised at how heavy the katana. I mean the walking for a mile with 15 pound kettlebells did not exhaust me the way swinging the katana for about five minutes did.

In fact it was after wielding the katana that it now made me curious if people who wielded traditional European knight swords in the museum and archaeology (who often were out of shape historians and archaeologists, some of them even being old men) felt the swords they found were heavy two when they were wielding them to test them.Because it was a shock to see something two pounds feel like 50 pounds!

Also bonus question, is what I experienced partially where the perception that European swords being clumsy and unwieldy due to being heavy come from? Possibly influencing Hollywood directors? Because I can't help but wonder if some people in the film industry one day decided to toy with real knightly swords and upon wielding it felt them so heavy it influenced how they perceived medieval fought and thus made actors fight like they were wielding 100 pound warhammers?

[Dan Howard]

Three pounds isn't light. A light sword weighs closer to one pound.

[Matthew Amt]

HUH! Very odd, and I suspect the answer is simply that you aren't used to holding swords.

I've never been athletic at all, and last night was very proud of myself for doing 12 pushups without even stopping to cry. From the very first time I held my old Del Tin "Crusader" sword (standard 13th century Brazil-nut pommel) many years ago, it felt surprisingly light and very well-balanced! I think it's about 2-1/2 pounds. Granted, it greatly depends on the sword! My 5-pound 2-handed Claymore feels great, but a 2-pound gladius or xiphos is a bloody brick.

And yes, you're probably right about the whole myth of the horribly heavy sword! Though it may very well have started before Hollywood, with a generation of Edwardian armchair historians picking up artifacts they had no experience with, or just seeing them hung on walls and assuming they knew more than they did. Believe me, there's STILL a lot of that going on, and not just among the teenager gamer/Youtube crowd!

Matthew

[T. Diamante]

For katana, particularly historical ones, two pounds is pretty light. It would be helpful to know where your sword balances; if it's too blade heavy that would be cause for the awkward feeling you're describing. It would also be helpful to know if you've had any training with swords(Japanese or European) as wielding one with incorrect form will also make them feel heavier.

The idea of European swords feeling unwieldy stems from people only trained in modern fencing handling antiques and not understanding how they were used.

[Baard H]

My experience comes from viking and early medieval swords (single handers) so my answer will come from that background. They're generally between around 800 grams to 1300 grams (1,7-2,8 pounds), my own being 1028 (2,2).

Over the years of testing I've found that the actual weight of the sword at best attributes only half-way to how heavy it feels like in the hand. I've handled swords that on a scale claims to be 800 grams that felt like a heavy and ungainly lump of metal and swords that weighed a little over 1300 that felt as if it was weightless in my hand.

The reasoning behind this is where the weight actually is. In "wallhangers" the makers have only cared about the looks and given no care to balancing the blade. As a result the weight is placed somewhere around the dead centre of the length, far from the hand.
The crappy swords made for reenactors on a budget generally "fix" this issue with overdimensioning the pommel and adding a longer grip, which make the balance point closer to the hilt, but makes it more sluggish and adds weight behind the grip instead of in it.
Good swords, both historical and modern are made in such a fashion that the blade tapers, being thinner at the end than near the hilt, often both in width and thickness. The grips are short and the pommel "just right" in size. All of these together if executed correctly will make it feel right and light almost no matter what the numbers on the scale is.

So bottom line, don't use cheap stuff as a basis for your views

[Philip Dyer]

Have ever done has strength training for your wrists, forearms and hands? From what you tell us, you have very well developed back, biceps and shoulder muscles but a but swinging a bar exerts alot of pressure and torque on your wrists, forearms and depending on the moition, hips and legs. I rember reading on the Arma webpage that precise sword actually put a high degree of strain on the smallest muscle groups in the human body so that what would be extremely if the wieght would rights next to your fist or being borne by the shoulder would be massive strain if away from your hand.

[Mark Moore]

I figured out your problem as soon as I read 'made in China katana'. Get to know some folks who have high quality replicas and you will see the difference immediately. I personally care very little for katana, but get a hold on an Albion or an A&A Euro-model and you will know what a REAL sword feels like. .....McM

[Mikko Kuusirati]

[Luka Borscak]

Sounds like you are fighting your swords mass instead of using it. Your strength isn't a problem, your dynamics probably are... I'm a small, not very strong guy, but I can easily wield a 4lbs longsword. You just have to learn how to use a sword and not fight its weight.

[Richard Miller]

The lightest sword that I own is a Type XVI "Brighton" from Custom Sword Shoppe, that weighs a little over 30 ounces (1.9lb). The sword seemed to weigh even less than that when I first held it.
One major aspect of a swords handling capability is the "Point of Balance" (PoB) or "Center of Gravity" (CoG).
The further the PoB is from the guard or Tsuba, the heavier the sword will feel in hand. When you hear people talking about how well a sword is balanced, they're usually referring to the swords center of gravity.
Sometimes vendors will refer to a sword that has "perfect balance", meaning that the center of gravity is right where the blade meets the guard. However, many, many fine swords will have the PoB as several inches from the guard. A good PoB for a Viking era sword might be 4-6 inches from the guard. Historical and intended use of the sword, as well as personal preference determines where a desired PoB is on a given sword.

-Rick

[Craig Peters]

I cannot speak regarding Japanese katanas, but with European medieval swords it is crucial for most techniques that you move the hilt to perform the actions. If you try to move the entire sword around with your arms, the weapon will fatigue you much more quickly, and much of the time your motions are not as clean and crisp. By contrast, when you make the hilt move first, the rest of the weapon follows, and the sword becomes more dynamic and easy to use.

[Zach Gordon]

Come on guys, this OP is so obviously a troll it's ridiculous. Re-read his post, the swearing, the "I can bench so much and am so strong".. and have a look at his other recent topics "Look at the scene in braveheart with polearms!". Need I go on? Don't feed the troll, he's baiting people.

[Matthew Amt]

[Bram Verbeek]

[Richard Miller]

[Dan Howard]

I said "closer to one pound" so any sword weighing less than two pounds meets that criteria But yes, one-pound swords are usually shortsword length.

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

Something no one has addressed is the size and shape of the grip. The grips on cheap 'katanas' are uniformly much larger than the real thing, and I don't think that's just due to the Japanese having smaller hands. Beyond a certain size, a sword's grip starts gaining mechanical advantage against the hand. Years ago, I had to regrip my 1775 Austrian NCO's infantry saber, as the original grip was falling to pieces, and I carved another the same size - and then I added the cord and leather covering. Stupid, stupid. The thing is crazy light and fast, but due to my error, I now find it quickly tires me to use it. By contrast, my unusually long longsword, which is nearly of claymore dimensions, tires me little more, as I made a grip properly sized to my hand.

Oh, and I hadn't noticed that katanas have much of a distal taper.

[Richard Miller]

[T. Diamante]

The first sword I ever owned was a ~$60 Musashi katana. Out of curiosity I took measurements of it and found the blade tapers from 7.6mm to 4mm at the start of the tip, balances right at 4.5" and weighs two pounds even. It actually makes both my H/T bastard and longsword feel heavy in comparison. I thought that might be interesting to anyone that hasn't handled a cheap katana before.

[Lancelot Chan]

Katana and oriental swords are generally more forward balanced than the European ones, with lighter total weight. So it's not a surprise that you found it heavy despite the lighter weight. Balance affect handling a lot and that weight is not concentrated on your hands. That's why the effect.