[Stephen Curtin]

After searching through the CELT project's pages, I believe I found the relevant passage.

"Is and sin atraacht Fer Diad go moch arnabárach & tánic reme a óenur co áth in chomraic, dáig rafitir rap ésin lá etergleóid in chomlaind & in chomraic, & rafitir
3245] co táetsad nechtar de díb in lá sain and nó co táetsaitis a ndís. Is and sin ra gabastar-som a chatherriud catha & comlaind & comraic immi {folio 86a} re tíachtain do Choin Chulaind dá saigid. Acus ba don chatherriud chatha & chomlaind & comraic ra gabastar a fúathbróic srebnaide sróil cona cimai"s d' ór bricc fria gelchness. Ra gabastar a
3250] fúathbróic ndondlethair ndegsúata tairrside immaich anechtair. Ra gabastar múadchloich móir méti clochi mulind tarrsi-side immuich anechtair. Ra gabastar a fúathbróic n-imdangin n-imdomain n-iarnaide do iurn athlegtha darin múadchloich móir méti clochi mulind ar ecla & ar úamun in gae bulga in lá sin. Ragabastar a chírchathbarr
3255] catha & comlaind & comraic imma chend barsa mbátar cethracha gemm carrmocail acá cháenchumtuch, arna ecur de chrúan & christaill & carrmocul & de lubib soillsi airthir bethad. Ra gabastar a sleig mbarnig mbairendbailc ina desláim. Ra gabastar a chlaideb camthúagach catha bara chlíu cona imdorn óir & cona muleltaib de
3260] dergór. Ra gabastar a scíath mór mbúabalchaín bara túagleirg a dromma barsa mbátar coíca cobrad bara taillfed torc taisselbtha bar cach comraid díb cenmothá in comraid móir medónaig do dergór. Bacheird Fer Diad clesrada ána ilerda ingantacha imda bar aird in lá sain nád róeglaind ac nech aile ríam, ac mumme ná
3265] ac aite ná ac Scáthaig nach ac Úathaig ná ac Aífe, acht a ndénum úad féin in lá sain i n-agid Con Culaind."

Which has been traznslated to,

"Then Fer Diad rose early on the morrow and came alone to the ford of combat, for he knew that this was the decisive day of the fight, and he knew too that one of them would fall in the fight that day or that both would fall. Then before Cú Chulainn came to meet him, he put on his battle equipment. Of that battle equipment was his filmy satin apron with its border of variegated gold which he wore next to his fair skin. Outside that he put on his apron of supple brown leather, and outside that a great stone as big as a millstone, and outside that stone, through fear and dread of the ga bulga that day, he put his strong, deep, iron apron made of smelted iron. On his head he put his crested helmet of battle which was adorned with forty carbuncle-gems, studded with red enamel and crystal and carbuncle and brilliant stones from the eastern world. In his right hand he took his fierce, strong spear. He set at his left side his curved battle-sword with its golden hilt and guards of red gold. On the arching slope of his back he put his huge, enormous fair shield with its fifty bosses into each boss of which a show boar could fit, not to speak of the great central boss of red gold. That day Fer Diad exhibited many and wonderful and brilliant feats of arms which he had not learned from anyone before that, neither from fostermother nor fosterfather, not from Scáthach nor Úathach nor Aífe, but he invented them himself on that day to oppose Cú Chulainn."

Now we need to see if the given translation matches up.

[Stephen Curtin]

Narrowing it down a little,

Acus ba don chatherriud chatha & chomlaind & comraic ra gabastar a fúathbróic srebnaide sróil cona cimai"s d' ór bricc fria gelchness. Ra gabastar a fúathbróic ndondlethair ndegsúata tairrside immaich anechtair. Ra gabastar múadchloich móir méti clochi mulind tarrsi-side immuich anechtair. Ra gabastar a fúathbróic n-imdangin n-imdomain n-iarnaide do iurn athlegtha darin múadchloich móir méti clochi mulind ar ecla & ar úamun in gae bulga in lá sin

Which supposedly translates to,

"Of that battle equipment was his filmy satin apron with its border of variegated gold which he wore next to his fair skin. Outside that he put on his apron of supple brown leather, and outside that a great stone as big as a millstone, and outside that stone, through fear and dread of the ga bulga that day, he put his strong, deep, iron apron made of smelted iron."

[Stephen Curtin]

Narrowing it down further,

"múadchloich móir méti clochi mulind"

Supposedly translates to,

"a great stone as big as a millstone"

From what I've gathered looking at dictionaries of old, and middle, Irish, this seems to be accurate.

[Len Parker]

[Dan Howard]

I'm guessing that this is the sentence you want:

Ra gabastar a fúathbróic ndondlethair ndegsúata tairrside immaich anechtair.

[Stephen Curtin]

[Richard Miller]

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

Here is the problem with using translations. I'm working on a reconstruction of Agamemon's helmet as described in the Iliad and the available translations are contradictory. So which one do we use?

This is the original passage.
κρατὶ δ' ἐπ' ἀμφίφαλον κυνέην θέτο τετραφάληρον
ἵππουριν: δεινὸν δὲ λόφος καθύπερθεν ἔνευεν. [11.41-42]

Lattimore translated the above as:
"Upon his head he set the helmet, two-horned, four-sheeted,
with the horse-hair crest, and the plumes nodded terribly above it."

Butler's translation:
"On his head Agamemnon set a helmet, with a peak before and behind, and four plumes of horse-hair that nodded menacingly above it."

Kline's translation:
"On his head he set his double-ridged four-plated helmet with horse-hair crest, its plume nodding savagely."

Murray's translation:
"And upon his head he set his helmet with two horns and with bosses four,
with horsehair crest, and terribly did the plume nod from above."

A reconstruction has to rely upon a literal interpretation, not a literary one. There are two ambiguous terms in the first line: amphiphalos and tetraphaleros
amphi means "on either side"; phalos is some kind of projection - horn, crest, etc.
tetra means "four"; phaleros I'm not sure about. It could mean "horn" or "crest" but it could also be from phalara which means "boss". Liddell and Scott reckon that it means "four-bosses" and that the word is the same as the latin phalerae.

So it could have two crests and four horns or it could have two horns and four bosses. The second line:
hippouris: "horse tail"
lophos: "plume" or "crest"
deinos: "terrible" or "fearful"
kathuperthe: "down from above"
neuo: "nod" or "beckon"

The words "horse tail" and "crest/plume" are both singular so I'm thinking that the helmet only has one of these. The most likely interpretation would therefore be one horse tail crest, two horns, and four bosses. So a literal translation would be something like:

"Upon his head he placed his two-horned, four-bossed helmet
The horse-tail crest nodded menacingly down from above."

Murray's translation is the most accurate but how can we tell without first doing the work ourselves?

[Stephen Curtin]

[Nathan Robinson]

Richard-

You're way out of bounds here. You'll reign it in and stop the personal attacks, name calling, and snide comments. None of this is appropriate on this site. Act professional.

Should you have any questions or comments, you can contact me via PM.

[Stephen Curtin]

Breaking down the word fúathbróic.

Fúath
http://www.dil.ie/search?q=fuath&search_in=headword

Meaning: likeness, form, semblance,

Bróc
http://www.dil.ie/search?search_in=headword&q=br%C3%B3c

Meaning: shoe, sandal, leggings, hoes,

So going by this, it looks like the fúathbróic was a garment for the lower body.

[Dan Howard]

Yeah, when you look at the other instances in which this word is used, "skirt" or "apron" or perhaps "girdle" would be the best interpretation.

[Stephen Curtin]

So Len. Your idea that Ferdiad's equipment consisting of layers of silk, leather, and iron skirts seems to be closer to what is stated in the text.

If this is the correct interpretation, then it's interesting that the passage which describes Ferdiad dressing for battle never mentions a upper body garment or defence. He first puts on a flimsy silk fúathbróic, then a pliable brown leather fúathbróic, then a great stone the size of a milestone, and finally an iron fúathbróic.

In contrast, Cú Chulainn is said to be wearing, a tough leather battle-girdle (chathchris), over 27 shirts (cneslénti). then, like Ferdiad, he wears a flimsy silk fúathbróic, and a pliable brown leather fúathbróic.

It occurs to me that both the silk, and the leather layers of fúathbróga are not intended to be armour, but only as clothing. First, Cú Chulainn is wearing two items of leather, a chathchris and a fúathbróic, but only the chathchris is stated to provide protection. Also the chathchris is stated to be tough, while the fúathbróic is stated to pliable. Second when Cú Chulainn pierces Ferdiad 's armour, the iron fúathbróic and the stone are mentioned, but not the silk or leather fúathbróga, as If piercing those was no big deal.

[Stephen Curtin]

Thinking more about this. If I'm right, and the silk and leather fúathbróga are items of clothing, and not armour. Then I would lean more towards fúathbróic meaning a pair of trews, rather than a skirt, as trews were the only form of lower body garment known to be used by the Irish at this time.

[Len Parker]

Stephen Curtin wrote: "it's interesting that the passage which describes Ferdiad dressing for battle never mentions a upper body garment or defence."

That's what confused me. With all this gear going over the trews, where's the description for the upper body? Maybe with the previous mentions of horn skin the poet just left it out. Remember, he does mention it during the fight (Cuchulain gripped the short spear, cast it off the palm of his hand over the rim of the shield and over the edge of the corselet and horn-skin, so that its farther half was visible after piercing his heart in his bosom.)

When I wrote help decipher I wasn't kidding. Very confusing. Based on the description of Cu Chulainn's armour, plus the description of the fight, and the original word for apron (fúathbróic), it does sound like it's horn skin for the upper body, and everything else for the lower body. Maybe.

Thanks everyone!

[David Hohl]

I think it's helpful to look at the surrounding text too. Like Stephen pointed out, the

[Jeffrey Faulk]

*hands up*

Honest question from one who has only marginally been following the discussion:

How useful is this passage, exactly? Because we are dealing here with something that's obviously quite mythological. Normally people don't run about with a shield the size of a barn wall and multiple bosses, carrying a stone the size of a millstone on their backside, and so forth. How likely is it that this is straight-up heroic fantasy, rather than a straightforward extrapolation of existing armour?

Unless I've read it wrong and the object is to simply analyze the passage to understand the form of this... fictional armour. Because honestly I'm having some difficulty understanding how it could possibly apply to actual Bronze Age (or Iron Age, as it might be, I'm a bit vague on the Irish mythological period) Irish battle garb. I freely concede the point may have flown over my head, so if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Thanks!

[Stephen Curtin]

Good points David.

Jeffrey. It's hard to say whether this text describes a from of armour that was actually used , or if its just fantasy. Though Ferdiad's armour seems ridiculous to us, Cú Chulainn's seems realistic enough. On his lower body he is wearing two layers (silk and leather) of a garment called a fúathbróic. On his upper body he is wearing 27 shirts, which sounds a lot like a gambeson/jack/doublet of fence. Over this he wears some kind of hardened leather girdle/corslet.