https://youtu.be/pe9cXWQgz1Q
Testing out a new cut with Longship Armoury John Lundemo DS.

I think this may be comparable to the "arming sword ward" used for a longsword play seen on plate 157 of Codex Wallerstein - see the link below:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/163.jpg

As you can tell from making your strike, you cannot well retain control of the sword with both hands after making contact with the target - this would be the same situation for the chap countering the oberhau in the plate linked above. Thus, this is really a one-time strike: you must hit the target or come to a bind and then begin grappling. Otherwise, you're in genuine mortal danger.

As an aside, I think this is a very interesting ward, though quite a risky one depending on the opposition. It strikes a similar blow to the conventional schielhau, in which it strikes on the same side as the oncoming attack, given that both combatants have the same dominant side. Note also that it can use the adversary's "energy against them," considering that it strikes in the same general direction as the oncoming attack (thus a hard bind is avoided). Unlike the schielhau, the blade does not bide down vertically, but instead stikes as a conventional mittelhau. The blade, also unlike the schielhau, does not rely on the opponent's sword to be pushed into said opponent's ear or neck.The holder of the low ward must step to his off-side, unlike that in Liechtenaur systems, as the right leg is forward and not aft.

That's interesting compare! Thanks for introducing that technique to me. :) I did not know such technique back when I practice German longsword.

Michael Beeching wrote:

I think this may be comparable to the "arming sword ward" used for a longsword play seen on plate 157 of Codex Wallerstein - see the link below:

The dates on the sections in Codex Wallerstein are apparently all over the place; the plate in the link above would have been older than those in the annotated sections. Just like today, there would have been martial arts systems galore in old Europe - I think it may be more sensible to say that, rather than German or Italian "systems," you have regional variations in technique in the Holy Roman Empire. There was certainly a lot of sharing between Germany and Italy - I do not think it would be wise to say that German and Italian traditions are so different, especially as time went on. Ringeck's "das riedel" ("the wheel") is basically Fiore's tail gaurd. By the time of Meyer, there are many tie-ins between both Master Liechtenaur and Master Fiore.

On that note, the plate linked above is more akin to the "Italian traditions," as someone might try to classify them, as they rely more so on the traditional seven wards (a broad reference to I.33). You may note that Fiore uses many wards and seems to specify that certain strikes come from them. Liechtenaur, in contrast, often has strikes come from four "condensed" wards, which do most or all of what the traditional wards did. Vom tag is basically a form of the Walpurgis ward from I.33, and most any strike can be executed from that position. To my understanding, that is the fundamental difference between the Great German master and the Great Italian master.

I agree with you. There were no german and italian back then. And you know how interesting it is to compare what I do now to what I used to do, through your view. Thank you for your insights and those are very fascinating. :D

Michael Beeching wrote:

The dates on the sections in Codex Wallerstein are apparently all over the place; the plate in the link above would have been older than those in the annotated sections. Just like today, there would have been martial arts systems galore in old Europe - I think it may be more sensible to say that, rather than German or Italian "systems," you have regional variations in technique in the Holy Roman Empire. There was certainly a lot of sharing between Germany and Italy - I do not think it would be wise to say that German and Italian traditions are so different, especially as time went on. Ringeck's "das riedel" ("the wheel") is basically Fiore's tail gaurd. By the time of Meyer, there are many tie-ins between both Master Liechtenaur and Master Fiore. On that note, the plate linked above is more akin to the "Italian traditions," as someone might try to classify them, as they rely more so on the traditional seven wards (a broad reference to I.33). You may note that Fiore uses many wards and seems to specify that certain strikes come from them. Liechtenaur, in contrast, often has strikes come from four "condensed" wards, which do most or all of what the traditional wards did. Vom tag is basically a form of the Walpurgis ward from I.33, and most any strike can be executed from that position. To my understanding, that is the fundamental difference between the Great German master and the Great Italian master.