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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

Posts: 507

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Hardy wrote:
Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
Philip Dyer wrote:
Also, the psychological conditioning for close quarter melee would probably be much higher that the average soldier, today, people are usually killed at ranges hundred if yards away, back then, because of average weaponry technology, it was psychological expectation that you see your enemies face, hear him grunting, smell as he is fighting you and be covered in several people blood and guts that was the military norm, today, than sort of combat intimacy is a deviation.


On the other hand, people back then didn't have to cope with artillery shells, landmines, and IEDs and all sorts of nasty high-explosive stuff that literally tear people apart into hardly recognisable masses of gore. And until the very last few centuries they never had to hunker down under heavy air or artillery bombardment for hours or days on end with no means to reply. There are some pretty strong reasons to believe that the prevalence of combat stress or PTSD or whatever you call it is so high not just because we're diagnosing something that people had simply ignored or dismissed as a sign of weakness before the 20th century, but also because modern warfare brings soldiers face-to-face with many stressors that had simply never existed before.


The length of time under "death stress" is different in modern warfare too. At Agincourt, the French knights were under missile threat for perhaps a couple hours while advancing. At Verdun during WW1, their descendants were under artillery missile threat day and night for several months...

Yeah, I wasn't saying that warfare has become easier just completely different in not just the obvious technical sense. Yeah, I get your point, what I said is inarguable, noncontributing truism. You can also say with rising literacy and communications technology, that we knew and know more about how the grim business affected soldiers than before the 20th century. I had over elaborated on a factor in Military competency that how heavy of a object you can carry and lift or how much destructive force you can impart onto a object.
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think the whole idea about the "feel" of the Viking Sword is exactly the feel a Viking would have emotionally to swords within their culture.

Certain personal items were regarded as part of your "self". It got imbued with the personality and skills of its user. So if a famous swords changed hands through gift-exchange it would increase in fame as it gathered parts of their personalities and skills along the way.
That's probably why theft was treated so harshly. Stealing another man's items is in actually "soul-theft".

So it's seems possibly that already during sword creation human ash from cremations could be added by the smith thus giving the sword a personality of the person whose ash it is, and possibly also from the smith itself as he gives birth to a manly penis-item, through the forge (a vagina object).
Actually the word "Sverð" is also used as a slang for "Penis" in Old Norse. Thus a scabbard is in Danish called "en Skede" which is totally the same word as a vagina, as the sword penetrates it.
The Fertility God Frey was known to have a sword, that could fight on it's own accord, but gave it away to get a Giant woman - Gerd - and so stands sword-less before Surt at Ragnarok. He is "un-manned" and thus loses.
It is after all manly to pierce and effeminate to receive [manly to be active homosexual, but effeminate to be a passive homosexual - viking society had very clear gender boundaries.] So being pierced with a sword makes you effeminate, while piercing another makes you manly.

Blood-brothers will also blend personalities and skills. That's why it is so interesting that Odin and Loke are blood-brothers, because what did they receive from each other!
So blood-brothers are a 2-way transference of personality and skills, while giving a sword is a 1-way transference.
So a sword given to you by the King is a huge honour, the King gives his "lykke" [= luck, but it's a much broader concept than the modern english use], personality and skills to his chosen warriors.

So if you want a feel for a Viking sword, it's about knowing its lineage. As all sagas starts with listing family lineages, then it should be the same for a famous sword. As all people are different in personality, so are swords.
Therefor Swords can be noble, bloodthirsty, unlucky, treacherous etc. and it will influence it's wielder.
[Tolkien got that with Turin Turambar's sword Gurthang, that was forged from Eöl's Anglachel and so still retained the influence of the smith's personality]

So to kill an opponent totally, you must kill his weapons as well. So the bog sacrifices with weapon deposits shows destroyed weapons. Taking the personal items of an enemy is to invite them into your own self -> and who wants to do that?
So not stealing from enemies is not out of respect for them, but because you really hate them and wants nothing of them in you. [Again Tolkien, Sauron's Ring needs to be destroyed as he influences the wearer].
Actually you could probably take the items from a fallen opponent if you really admired them (even being friends) and you only fought them as a result of honour (bloodfeuding).

If you need a mighty sword you go into the mounds of an ancestor and retrieve a weapon there -> already Saxo describes breaking into mounds in the Viking ages and this story about Vermund and Uffe hin Spage [the fainthearted] is also illuminating.

Vermund the old Danish King is blind and his son Uffe seems somewhat retarded. The Danes are challenged by the Saxons to a duel for the Kingdom, because they have heard about Uffe's condition.
Suddenly Uffe shows his true self and say he will fight the duel. All swords he tests breaks in his hand. So they have to retrieve the legendary sword "Skræp" which Vermund had buried many years ago since he didn't think Uffe would ever be worthy enough to wield it - it's all rusty, so they don't dare to have Uffe testing it before the duel. The duel takes place on a small "holm" in the Eider river. [Danish: Holmgang, Old Norse: Holmganga].
As the duel is to start [Uffe alone against 2 Saxons] blind Vermund put his seat next to the water to thrown himself in, if Uffe loses the Kingdom to the Saxons. But as Uffe strikes with his legendary sword Vermund can recognize "Skræp" singing and then moves away from the edge. Uffe kills both Saxons and Denmark is saved.

NB: In actually this story is probably about the Kings of Angeln fighting the Saxons around 400 AD [before they invaded later England (Angelland) and Uffe likely being the Offa described in Widsith.
But as Saxo stated in the very beginning of his history: "Dan and Angel were brothers".....The Angeln Kings in 400 AD could likely have been sub kings ("little-brothers" in a duel Kingship?) to the Danish High King as the Danes seemed to have pushed west from around 200 AD and securing the territories around 400-500 AD.
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