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Lukas MG wrote:
I have found really sharp edges make penetrating cloth a lot easier than just having a narrow tip... how sharp is your Cluny at the tip? Obviously the edge bevel will be really steep with such a narrow blade and incapable of effective cutting but I assume the edge is still highly polished and quite sharp?

Btw, when I write longer posts, I always do so in Word or a similar program, then copy/paste them in the forum. Might be a good idea for you as well ;)


It most definitely is good advice, will do so, i'm the only one to blame for letting it happen, i should know better ^^.

I did polish the Cluny's tip, not at 40 degree's however, that's not wide enough to hit the apex of the bevel, i could not say what the exact angle is without calculating it, what i do towards the tip is progressively broaden the angle at which i hold the blade to the belt, this ensures a very sharp tip without changing its shape, it penetrates very well.

On wider tipped civilian blades like the Esslingen you can re-profile the blade tip to 40 degree's and this makes for stunning performance in thrusts and tip cuts, without compromising strength in the geometry. 40 degree's is plenty strong vs cloth, flesh and bone.
Well itīs just speculation at this point but if itīs true that the Cluny would be more favorable in Northern Europe and the brescia spadona more in Southern Europe it does destroy a certain stereotype. That of Southern Europeans being flamboyant mustache twirling guys with pointy feeble swords while everyone north of the alps hasn't got beyond using giant meat cleavers. it seems to be the opposite.

/end-speculation-and-slightly-offensive-regional-profiling
I'm wondering, have you been able to get the Cluny's tip to cut through clothing or anything with a tip cut (basically racking the point across the target)? My XVIIIb has a very similar tip geometry and despite being highly polished, I couldn't get the tip to do anything but tear through some layers of wet newspaper, linen stopped it cold. In the thrust it's ridiculously easy obviously to go through even several layers of thick linen and wool but in the cut the entire first 10-12cm are useless.

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).
Lukas MG wrote:

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).


Well you know... Hollywood.

[ Linked Image ]

A similar thing is found in Rob Roy where the cultured Englishman uses a smallsword-ish thing while the brave and burly Scot chooses a basket hilted sword.
Drawing conclusions from just one 'northern' and one 'southern' sword is a bit quick as well, I believe :)

Regards,
Hence I said it's speculation and regional profiling.
Not to mention that the Brescia's blade was actually made in Passau, Germany and it would probably be a bit of a stretch to assume the maker, knowing how Italians like their swords, made the blade specifically to be used in southern areas ;)
Lukas MG wrote:
I'm wondering, have you been able to get the Cluny's tip to cut through clothing or anything with a tip cut (basically racking the point across the target)? My XVIIIb has a very similar tip geometry and despite being highly polished, I couldn't get the tip to do anything but tear through some layers of wet newspaper, linen stopped it cold. In the thrust it's ridiculously easy obviously to go through even several layers of thick linen and wool but in the cut the entire first 10-12cm are useless.

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).


No i cannot cut cloth with the Cluny's tip, only tear a few layers if like you say i rack the very point across it, but doing so extensively will most certainly bend or break it...

The Cluny is not alone, the Brescia is also incapable of cutting cloth with its tip, despite being a good bit wider, i suspect its lack of stiffness being the culprit.

I measured the amount of tip area that is incapable of cutting cloth on both swords, Cluny: 20 cm's , Brescia: 7-8 cm's.

The reason i polish to a high degree the point area is not so much for cutting, but thrusting, when a lot of material is covering the target, you notice the difference in ease of penetration between a highly polished point and one that is not.
Consider this encouragement to please continue posting your fascinating data.

Jean
Seconding that^
This is a fascinating thread. For fairly obvious reasons I'm quite keen to see how the Albion Alexandria fares against the pig. If the edge geometry of this sword is anything like that of the original Alexandrian XVIIIc pieces, I would expect it to be a superlative cutter! As was mentioned above, although these swords are very thin in cross section (about 4.0 to 5.5mm at the forte on the originals), the great breadth of their blades combine with an extremely subtle hollowing of their faces to impart a reasonable degree of strength.
Waiting patiently for the rest of the tests ;)
Any updates or further testing? Has the review been written again without incident?
Any word from the original poster?
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