Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Cutting Tests, Sword Performance Review and Rankings. Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2 
Author Message
Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukas MG wrote:
I have found really sharp edges make penetrating cloth a lot easier than just having a narrow tip... how sharp is your Cluny at the tip? Obviously the edge bevel will be really steep with such a narrow blade and incapable of effective cutting but I assume the edge is still highly polished and quite sharp?

Btw, when I write longer posts, I always do so in Word or a similar program, then copy/paste them in the forum. Might be a good idea for you as well Wink


It most definitely is good advice, will do so, i'm the only one to blame for letting it happen, i should know better ^^.

I did polish the Cluny's tip, not at 40 degree's however, that's not wide enough to hit the apex of the bevel, i could not say what the exact angle is without calculating it, what i do towards the tip is progressively broaden the angle at which i hold the blade to the belt, this ensures a very sharp tip without changing its shape, it penetrates very well.

On wider tipped civilian blades like the Esslingen you can re-profile the blade tip to 40 degree's and this makes for stunning performance in thrusts and tip cuts, without compromising strength in the geometry. 40 degree's is plenty strong vs cloth, flesh and bone.
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well itīs just speculation at this point but if itīs true that the Cluny would be more favorable in Northern Europe and the brescia spadona more in Southern Europe it does destroy a certain stereotype. That of Southern Europeans being flamboyant mustache twirling guys with pointy feeble swords while everyone north of the alps hasn't got beyond using giant meat cleavers. it seems to be the opposite.

/end-speculation-and-slightly-offensive-regional-profiling
View user's profile Send private message
Lukas MG
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posts: 330

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 7:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm wondering, have you been able to get the Cluny's tip to cut through clothing or anything with a tip cut (basically racking the point across the target)? My XVIIIb has a very similar tip geometry and despite being highly polished, I couldn't get the tip to do anything but tear through some layers of wet newspaper, linen stopped it cold. In the thrust it's ridiculously easy obviously to go through even several layers of thick linen and wool but in the cut the entire first 10-12cm are useless.

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).

Custom sword maker:

http://www.lukasmaestlegoer.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukas MG wrote:

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).


Well you know... Hollywood.



A similar thing is found in Rob Roy where the cultured Englishman uses a smallsword-ish thing while the brave and burly Scot chooses a basket hilted sword.
View user's profile Send private message
Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Reading list: 15 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 870

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drawing conclusions from just one 'northern' and one 'southern' sword is a bit quick as well, I believe Happy

Regards,

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hence I said it's speculation and regional profiling.
View user's profile Send private message
Lukas MG
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posts: 330

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not to mention that the Brescia's blade was actually made in Passau, Germany and it would probably be a bit of a stretch to assume the maker, knowing how Italians like their swords, made the blade specifically to be used in southern areas Wink
Custom sword maker:

http://www.lukasmaestlegoer.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar, 2015 9:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukas MG wrote:
I'm wondering, have you been able to get the Cluny's tip to cut through clothing or anything with a tip cut (basically racking the point across the target)? My XVIIIb has a very similar tip geometry and despite being highly polished, I couldn't get the tip to do anything but tear through some layers of wet newspaper, linen stopped it cold. In the thrust it's ridiculously easy obviously to go through even several layers of thick linen and wool but in the cut the entire first 10-12cm are useless.

I'm surprised by that stereotype, as a practitioner of the German longsword school "meat cleavers" are the last thing I think of when it comes to northern european weaponry... obviously there were some massive cutting swords but the typical northern european longsword is a type XV or XVIII (prime example: the sword the Albion Munich is based on).


No i cannot cut cloth with the Cluny's tip, only tear a few layers if like you say i rack the very point across it, but doing so extensively will most certainly bend or break it...

The Cluny is not alone, the Brescia is also incapable of cutting cloth with its tip, despite being a good bit wider, i suspect its lack of stiffness being the culprit.

I measured the amount of tip area that is incapable of cutting cloth on both swords, Cluny: 20 cm's , Brescia: 7-8 cm's.

The reason i polish to a high degree the point area is not so much for cutting, but thrusting, when a lot of material is covering the target, you notice the difference in ease of penetration between a highly polished point and one that is not.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Consider this encouragement to please continue posting your fascinating data.

Jean

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seconding that^
View user's profile Send private message
Clive Thomas




Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Joined: 05 Oct 2006

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a fascinating thread. For fairly obvious reasons I'm quite keen to see how the Albion Alexandria fares against the pig. If the edge geometry of this sword is anything like that of the original Alexandrian XVIIIc pieces, I would expect it to be a superlative cutter! As was mentioned above, although these swords are very thin in cross section (about 4.0 to 5.5mm at the forte on the originals), the great breadth of their blades combine with an extremely subtle hollowing of their faces to impart a reasonable degree of strength.
View user's profile Send private message
Lukas MG
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posts: 330

PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Waiting patiently for the rest of the tests Wink
Custom sword maker:

http://www.lukasmaestlegoer.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kai Lawson





Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 589

PostPosted: Mon 08 Jun, 2015 1:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any updates or further testing? Has the review been written again without incident?
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jul, 2015 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any word from the original poster?
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Cutting Tests, Sword Performance Review and Rankings.
Page 2 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum