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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ryan A. C. wrote:

Someone asked if it is just the Sempach? Yeah, just that sword.


Ryan,

I too have a Sempach. About a month and a half ago, it had gotten to the point where there were substantial rust blotches on the pommel and the guard with a few on the blade, so I decided to sand them out. I've applied oil to the sword, and since that time it's sat out in the open in my room, on top of a rather long set of drawers. Since that time, it's acquired very little rust. All this is to say that there isn't something inherent to the Sempach that makes it rust more than other swords.
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Jörg W.




Location: Germany
Joined: 11 Feb 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember to have some polish powder (horrible expensive afaik) that i used to polish metal units of analytical apparatus at work. But trying on my precious is kind of risky. I finally need a training sword (to train WMA and maintenance ^^)

It seems like the opinions about WD40 do vary. Maybe I will try 3-in-1, Ballistol or a Breakfree.
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jörg W. wrote:
I remember to have some polish powder (horrible expensive afaik) that i used to polish metal units of analytical apparatus at work. But trying on my precious is kind of risky. I finally need a training sword (to train WMA and maintenance ^^)

It seems like the opinions about WD40 do vary. Maybe I will try 3-in-1, Ballistol or a Breakfree.


I've tried many oils over the years and have found Ballistol to be an excellent choice. It's all I use now.
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Addison C. de Lisle




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To clean my sword I do the following procedure:

1) Rub the entire blade/crosspiece/pommel with 0000 steel wool

2) Windex

3) Nevr-Dull Wadding polish. This comes in a round container, and is filled with cotton that has the compound soaked into it. I have seen this stuff take off some severe rusting on an antique oil can.

3) Wipe off with a paper towel

4) Use Tuf Cloth. This is a cloth that you wipe the metal with, then wipe off again lightly with a rag. I like this better than oil because it's slightly less messy and lasts longer.

This is once a month. After cutting, I only use the Tuf Cloth.

Good luck!
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like to use "gun oil" as it is basically just light machine oil without solvents and cleaners such as in WD-40 and other combination cleaner oils. It is specifically made for storage if one thinks about it. Light and pure grades of similar oils (for guns, clocks, etc.) are fairly pricey, but a little goes a long way.

I routinely allow visitors (wide range with unknown acidity of sweat) to handle the swords (did so yesterday in fact) when showing them off and really do not have any significant rust problems as long as I wipe them with a seasoned rag around once per month.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Jonathan Blair




Location: Hanover, PA
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Water Displacement solution, 40th attempt (WD40) is a water displacement solution and as such can arrest the spread of rust. Per the MSDS, it contains 45-50% Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates (aka mineral spirits), 15-25% Petroleum Base Oil, 12-15% LVP Hydrocarbon Fluid, 2-3% Carbon Dioxide, and 10% "Non-hazardous" Ingredients. It has a flash point of 131F and a boiling point of 323F minimum. http://www.wd40.com/Brands/pdfs/msds-wd40_aerosol.us.pdf
It is exothermic in nature due to the aliphatic compounds, but it evaporates very quickly. It also attracts dust which can trap moisture, and because of its high evaporation rate it might leave blades unprotected and susceptible to rust in more humid environments. Mileage may vary.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Time to make people cringe...

Since we use our weapons for sparring twice a week, outdoors except for the wintertime (when its to dark to practice outside in the afternoon), we have a pretty lazis faire relationship to rust.
Your weapons will rust, to some degree or another. A training with rain can leave a unoiled almost completely brown.
Some weapons stand up to rain better than others. Most reach a "stable" state, where they are slightly darkened, but do not get any worse unless it really pours.
Since we see our weapons as tools rather than collectors items, keeping them in pristine condition isn't really a priority.
Wink

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Sean Belair
Industry Professional




Joined: 08 Aug 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

this my sound strange but are you keeping the sword in the box it came in?
i had allot of trouble with my albion gaddjalt because while i was away i left it in the box. now its out of the box and i havent had any trouble, and ive been handleing it evory day.
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 9:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Belair wrote:
this my sound strange but are you keeping the sword in the box it came in?
i had allot of trouble with my albion gaddjalt because while i was away i left it in the box. now its out of the box and i havent had any trouble, and ive been handleing it evory day.


Just to second that point, I was using the boxes but stopped after I had problems with the foam leaving marks (slight, but difficult to remove).
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Christian Henry Tobler




Location: Oxford, CT
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 704

PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Ryan et. al.,

I used to use car wax on my arms and armour. It was very protective, but I found the residue left behind in nooks and crannies to be unsightly. Now I use Renaissance Wax, which to me is worth every penny - it dries clear and leaves a very tough protective coating. All my gear is protected with it now and has been rust free for quite some time.

Again, car waxes will work - the Ren Wax just seems to be a cut above.

All the best,

Christian

Christian Henry Tobler
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Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship

Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have yet to try Ren Wax, though I've been curious about it for some time, but I have very good luck preventing rust with a simple oil cloth. I keep a saturated cloth in an air tight container, usually a babyfood jar. Every day that I handle a sword, I wipe it down with this cloth. I also have a larger cloth in a bigger jar for armor.

I use Choji oil, because of the smell...it helps me determine when the cloth needs another few drops of oil. When you apply choji oil to a blade, the intensity of the smell tells you how much oil you're actually putting on. You can use any oil this way, of course, but the Choji oil smell is a lot more pleasant than other stuff I've used, such as 3 in 1 or CLP. Although I've had a few instances of light staining when I neglect to oil a sword I've handled, I generally have no problems with rust. For wall-hung display swords, I've found that oiling them once every few weeks is sufficient in my climate. For swords that are handled often, I may wipe them down several times a day, or once every few days, depending on what I do with them. Wiping a sword takes a few seconds and is more fun than bothersome.

About Ren Wax...does it hold up well to handling? And if so, how do you know when it's been worn away? I always thought that Ren Wax was for display pieces that are not handled often.
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Addison C. de Lisle




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been storing my Crecy in the box it came in for almost a year now and haven't noticed any problems, but I'm going to stop now....thanks for the heads-up
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 5:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To stop my metal items(mainly armour)from rusting I use full syntetic car engine oil (of course brand new not from the engine Wink )But they are items for combat and reenacting not collectible.Anyway I had no problem with long storage-no rust.Only problem is that oil is very sticky and it is necesary to remove dust before use or keep it under cover.
www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm so glad not be be the first person recommending Tuf Cloth in a rust prevention thread for a change - great to hear you're a convert too Addison Big Grin

Go with Marine Tuf Cloth to be safe, since your rust issue sounds pretty severe. Clean the oil off your sword with alcohol or Windex, then give it a good rub down with Tuf Cloth. Wait for 60 seconds, then rub off the excess with a clean cloth until your sword shines. It'll look and feel like there's nothing there and won't rub off like wax, but you shouldn't see rust forming ever again. Apply a new coat after every hard use. You don't need to remove the old coat before every application, and the protection will build up over time.

If you try the Tuf Cloth, do please post here to let us know how it works for you. I'm convinced that every sword enthusiast having rust issues would use this product if it was more widely discussed. I've yet to hear a bad word about it, and it really is the simplest solution. No mess, no fuss.
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Aaron J. Cergol





Joined: 02 Aug 2006

Posts: 45

PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

HI,
I heard somewhere that this was done in period-correct me if I'm wrong though.

I heard that they used to use LANOLIN (Spelling?) which is the oil from the wool of a sheep or other like animal. I know there are sources on the web for it I will look some up for you. I've heard of people using it nowadays and having good results. It's the equivilent to a thick oil.

hope this helps,

Aaron
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Steve Grisetti




Location: Orlando metro area, Florida, USA
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James A. Vargscarr wrote:
I'm so glad not be be the first person recommending Tuf Cloth in a rust prevention thread for a change - great to hear you're a convert too Addison Big Grin....

This "Tuf Cloth" sounds like interesting stuff. It is odd that I hadn't noticed earlier mention in posts. I have been using Renaissance Wax on my collection, and will probably stick with that for the time-being. However, I have a bunch of tools in my hot, humid central Florida garage, and they seem to want to rust like crazy. Sounds like an opportunity for a Tuf Cloth test!

"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James A. Vargscarr wrote:
I'm so glad not be be the first person recommending Tuf Cloth in a rust prevention thread for a change - great to hear you're a convert too Addison Big Grin

Go with Marine Tuf Cloth to be safe, since your rust issue sounds pretty severe. Clean the oil off your sword with alcohol or Windex, then give it a good rub down with Tuf Cloth. Wait for 60 seconds, then rub off the excess with a clean cloth until your sword shines. It'll look and feel like there's nothing there and won't rub off like wax, but you shouldn't see rust forming ever again. Apply a new coat after every hard use. You don't need to remove the old coat before every application, and the protection will build up over time.

If you try the Tuf Cloth, do please post here to let us know how it works for you. I'm convinced that every sword enthusiast having rust issues would use this product if it was more widely discussed. I've yet to hear a bad word about it, and it really is the simplest solution. No mess, no fuss.


At first I too used Marine Tuff Cloth, but it has one big drawback...it stinks. A lot. Also it seems that you need gloves to use it or soaks into your hands and makes them stink for days. Otherwise it does seem to work, but like all other methods of rust prevention, you need to reapply it regularly for best results.
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Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron J. Cergol wrote:
HI,
I heard somewhere that this was done in period-correct me if I'm wrong though.

I heard that they used to use LANOLIN (Spelling?) which is the oil from the wool of a sheep or other like animal. I know there are sources on the web for it I will look some up for you. I've heard of people using it nowadays and having good results. It's the equivilent to a thick oil.

hope this helps,

Aaron


I have heard of this used a lot too, since their sheep skins were made different than today. I'm having some scabbards made for a rapier and dagger set with Lanolin bearing wool inside the cores. I'll see if those help in rust pervention. It should be interesting.
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Addison C. de Lisle




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James A. Vargscarr wrote:
I'm so glad not be be the first person recommending Tuf Cloth in a rust prevention thread for a change - great to hear you're a convert too Addison Big Grin


Bryce Felperin wrote:

At first I too used Marine Tuff Cloth, but it has one big drawback...it stinks. A lot. Also it seems that you need gloves to use it or soaks into your hands and makes them stink for days. Otherwise it does seem to work, but like all other methods of rust prevention, you need to reapply it regularly for best results.


I heard about it here a while ago and thought I'd give it a try. I don't really think it smells all that bad; and the smell goes away after a little while. Or I'm just so used to it that I don't notice it anymore Laughing Out Loud

I don't use the Marine cloth though, maybe the marine cloth smells worse than the regular one.

My one complaint with this product is that after I wipe off the excess it sometimes leaves streak marks down the blade. I think I may be wiping off the excess too early though.
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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri 08 Sep, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bryce Felperin wrote:
At first I too used Marine Tuff Cloth, but it has one big drawback...it stinks. A lot. Also it seems that you need gloves to use it or soaks into your hands and makes them stink for days.


Interesting...I rather like the smell, but I don't notice it at all after I've polished off the excess and washed my hands. But it's useful to know that some people might find the smell objectionable.

For what it's worth, one of the questions in the user guide's FAQ section is "Tuf Cloth and Tuf Glide smell; will this affect my hunt?". The answer reads, "No, game will not detect the odour. As the products dry and bond to the metal the smell disappears." This has certainly been the case in my experience.

Bryce Felperin wrote:
Otherwise it does seem to work, but like all other methods of rust prevention, you need to reapply it regularly for best results.


True that regular application is ideal, but the literature claims that the protection lasts up to a year on items placed in storage. I've found that I need to reapply Tuf Cloth far less often than I did oil - I really don't do it that often; perhaps every six months these days if I'm not cutting. My habits have gotten lazy after using silicone cloth - another system which doesn't require frequent reapplication.

Addison C. de Lisle wrote:
I don't use the Marine cloth though, maybe the marine cloth smells worse than the regular one.

My one complaint with this product is that after I wipe off the excess it sometimes leaves streak marks down the blade. I think I may be wiping off the excess too early though.


Now that is weird. As far as I know, you don't need to rub off the excess with regular Tuf Cloth - it should go on wet and dry invisibly. The Marine Tuf Cloth really coats the blade, but I've never had a problem with streaks. I polish until everything feels smooth (when the residue no longer causes friction) and it looks like the steel is completely clean. In fact that is the main reason I prefer Tuf Cloth to silicone cloth. Like oil, silicone coats the blade rather obviously. After switching to Tuf Cloth and its invisible protection I was able to appreciate my swords in a completely new light; especially the pattern-welded pieces.

Steve - I think the main reason this product rarely comes up is because people successfully use other products that they're happy with, and those are the ones they recommend. No need to fix what isn't broken, after all! And unlike products like Ren Wax, you don't see Tuf Cloth appearing in catalogues alongside other sword accessories. For those who do want an alternative to oil or wax it's a fantastic product.

Here's a link to the Tuf Cloth website's FAQ.
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