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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
And anyway at least they get plenty of cheese....


I wonder how many diary products one can stomach, it sure must be a lot for these people.

Quote:
I agree that to us it would be indeed a stark lifestyle change and they had it far harder than most of us in the present but just pointing out the likelihood that exaggeration, hyperbole and stereotypes play a part in this


Quote:
This is hardly representative.


Of course it is!

Maybe something got lost in translation but it's quite obvious. They're essentially singing an early to mid 14th century version of Randy Newman's Rednecks. It's a mix of stereotyping and mocking the farmers who rose in Flanders around 1328.

If anything it is representative of what the sentiment of the upper stratas of society was.
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now these ones aren't translated to modern Dutch so I will have to do it myself. Jean if you want the medieval French text to compare it I can provide it.

Quote:
Tideman, de messemakere, Tideman, le coutelier,

smeed messen ende lemmelen, forge coutiaus et alemelles,

ende hi slijpt up eenen slijpsteen; et il esmiut sur une muele;

daernaer hecht hi sine lemmekein; puis esmance ses alemelles;

danne doet hi se scheeden; dont les fait enwainer;

dan vercoept hi se in de halle. puis les vend en le hale.



Tideman the cutler
Forges knives and blades
He sharpens them upon a grind/wet stone
Then he attaches his blade (indicating hilting?)
Then he sheaths them (produces a scabbard?)
And sells them in 'the halls'

Quote:
Reynier, de vrome,

gaet ten tornoye

ende ten joestemente;

ende heeft mijn rosside,

mijn palefroit,

mijn coursier

ende [al] mijn glavien:

ende ic wane dat hi sal hebben den prijs.


Reynier the pious
Goes off to the tournaments
And the to jousts
He has my (battle horse?)
My palfrey
My courser
And all my glaives/lances
And I believe that he will win the price.


Quote:
Reinaudekin, de costre,

gaet t' Avingnoen

omme te impetreerne.

Men seigt datter es

een nieuwe paeus,

ende sal doen gracie.

- Ende wat sal hi impetreren?

- Eene prochie, eene capelrie,

of eenich goede beneficie.

- Ya, of God wille.


Reinaudekin the Sacristan

Goes to Avignon

To acquire (a place to preach?)

People say there is

A new pope

And he shall be graceful/giving

-And what shall he(The Sacristan) acquire?
-A parish, a chapel-ry
-A good benefice?
-Yes, or Gods will/grace

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_bru004jges01_01/_b...1_0008.php
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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Posts: 1,420

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That book is an amazing resource. It's like a grammar school reading primer but it has all the details of life in Bruges during this period.

This is an interesting passage

Denis, le fourbisseur,

me doit fourbir m'espee,

me misericorde, me dagghe,

si me doit faire un heaume,

un bachinet, ij wantelets,

un haubergon, une gorgiere,

deus greves et une plate.




Dennis the 'furbisher'?

He can make a right good sword
My misericorde, my dagger
He can make me a right good helm
A bascinet, and ...?
A haubergon, a gorget
two greaves and one plate

Sounds like you could get some pretty good fighting kit in the Bruges marketplace

Quote:
I wonder how many diary products one can stomach, it sure must be a lot for these people.


Well this is the part of the world where lactose tolerance comes from.... Wink



J

Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum

Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2015 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is my translation of the Flemish bit.

Quote:
Denijs, de sweertvaghere,

es mi sculdich te bruneerne mijn sweert,

mine misericorde, mine dagghe,

ende es mi sculdich te makene eenen helm;

j beckineel, ij yserinen hantscoen,

eenen halsberch, eene gorgiere,

ij beenhernassche ende eene plate.


Denis the sword maker

Still owes me: The polishing of my sword,
my misericorde, my dagger,

and he still needs to make me a helmet

(beckineel is a word that can mean either helmet/baschinet or skull cap), a gauntlet

a bevor(the word halsberch can imply both mail and plate protection for the throat and neck or chest), a gorget (In light of the earlier halsberch this could mean a mail standard that goes under the bevor),
a leg harness and a plate (could refer to a breastplate, a platter or the material the leg harness should be fashioned out of).


Not just weapons either.

Quote:
Donaes, de pourpointstickere,

sal mi maken een wambies

ende een lendenier.


Donaes the Jack(gambeson) maker

Shall make for a gambeson

and a girdle.


The sheer amount of trades listed is incredible too, they had dedicated plasters and such.
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 645

PostPosted: Mon 06 Apr, 2015 1:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a more readable version.

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_bru004jges01_01/_bru004jges01_01.pdf

it also includes stuff you should have in your home and what appears to be a bathing routine. The list that included griffins goes further and lists all kinds of cheese, fish, fruit, herbs, leavy greens, alcoholic beverages.

Apparently herring oil makes a good shoe-polish. Wink
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr, 2015 5:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pieter,

Sure. I guess I thought you were indicating it was serious which was what my caution revolved around. It very much is a projection by the uppers stereotyping their 'inferiors'.

Sadly I doubt much has changed in the way the !% or thereabouts thinks about their 'inferiors' but that is a path for outside the scope of this thread.

RPM
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 12 Apr, 2015 6:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a summary of an article on meat consumption in the Middle Ages. Similar to other analyses, it focuses on the late medieval period. It's not specifically focused upon peasant diets, but it gives some insights just the same.

A recently published article has revealed some interesting new details about meat consumption in the Middle Ages, including how different regions in medieval Western Europe had their own preferences for these foods.

In the article, “Consumption of Meat in Western European Cities during the Late Middle Ages: A Contemporary Study,” Ramón Agustín Banegas López examines a wide range of evidence from England, France, Italy and the Iberian Peninsula to see what kinds of meat were eaten by its urban residents, including beef, mutton, pork and veal.

One of the key conclusions of this article is that cattle and sheep were the main sources of meat throughout Western Europe, and that consumption of pork went into general decline during the 14th and 15th centuries, which López attributes to changes in farming after the Black Death.

There were also a lot of regional variation – in northern France and England beef was the most popular type of meat. According to the late 14th-century book Mesnagier de Paris, in a typical week Parisian residents consumed over 95 000 kilograms of beef, more than twice the amount of any other type of meat. López also notes that medieval cookbooks, like the Viandier and the Forme of Curye, had beef in their recipes more often than other meats.

The situation in the Iberian Peninsula was different – the author makes use of a unique tax record from Barcelona which shows the meat consumption in that city during year of 1462. He finds that almost 70% of all the meat consumed was mutton (representing over 40000 animals), while beef consumption was just over 10%. Meanwhile, Catalan cookbooks dating back to the Middle Ages also show that when meat was used in recipes, it was usually mutton.

López notes that in Italy there was a lot of seasonal variation in meat consumption. In late 14th century Prato, for example, “mutton was the most popular meat from the end of spring through the beginning of winter, and pork rose in popularity in September and peaked in January. Veal was sold mainly during summer – especially in August and September.” The consumption of veal and beef from young cattle was higher in Italy than in other parts of Europe.

The author believes that the reasons behind the differences in meat consumptions between regions lies partly in the agricultural productivity of these areas, and partly in social preferences. López notes that the urban aristocracy in Italy preferred young animals, “which were finer meats than mutton and beef, as well as being more expensive and more prestigious.”

The article “Consumption of Meat in Western European Cities during the Late Middle Ages: A Contemporary Study,” appears in the journal Food and History, Vol.8 No.1 (2010).

Source: http://www.medievalists.net/2011/06/11/how-mu...eople-eat/
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