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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: singlesticks         Reply with quote

Hi All,

Through the 18th and 19thC single stick fighting was a very popular sport in the UK and this is a reproduction single stick.

The stick itself is about 40" long and made from ash, though I have also heard that blackthorn and hazel make suitable sticks.

The guard was made from leather or wicker work and in this case it is 4mm thick hardened leather and trimmed with vegtan leather.

The guard must be able to slide down the stick during a thrust so that the recipient does not take a full hit and the peg is there to retain the stick in the guard.

I love making odd comisisons like this and I hope to make another pair, as this is a piece I would like to perfect.

Any comments are most welcome.

Regards

Tod



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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice. I have a pair of these that were used at the Naval Academy. I used them as a kid before I knew how old they were.
Matthew Stagmer
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Julian Reynolds




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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a nice reproduction, Tod. We regularly use singlesticks in the salle, for backsword practice. We have a mix of basketwork and leather hilts, the leather ones mostly coming from Paul Macdonald at Macdonald Armouries in Edinburgh. It's good to have an alternative source (assuming competitive pricing!), I'll spread the word amongst my backsworders - I'll put something up on a few forums, if you like....

Julian
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is there supposed to be leather tube around the grip, to allow the stick to slide on impact as you described?


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-Sean

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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is pretty good work!

Will you be posting more on this on your site(s)?

M.

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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote
Quote:
Is there supposed to be leather tube around the grip, to allow the stick to slide on impact as you described?


I had not seen that detail - Julian please spread the word and do you have any thoughts on the tube?

Tod

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Neal Matheson




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Single sticks make a fairly decent sparring weapon and are nice and historical, the welts are far less dramtic than the bruises one recieves from the modern synthetic trainers too. I may be interested in buying some baskets if you were to start a line of them, I;m sure many more would too I tend to use ash saplings. I would have thought that a blackthorn singlestick would be more an actual weapon rather than training tool.
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Julian Reynolds




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tod, glad to be of help; I've put them on various WMA/HEMA/FB groups & forums I am a member of. Hope you get some business out of them....

As for the tube, I've never seen any with one before: the idea is to keep hold of the stick with your hand, and relax the grip when point contact has been firmly made, so it runs through your fingers. I guess, if the tube is supple enough to let you squeeze it to keep the stick from slipping in normal use, then it should have the same effect, but it just seems an unnecessary complication....

Julian
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David Clark





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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is a really familiar setup to anyone who fights using SCA regs.... Wink
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Julian Reynolds




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was under the impression, with SCA basket hilts, that the rattan was fixed in place with screws or jubilee clips (hose clips?). I wasn't aware that the rattan could move freely through the guard, but then I don't fight SCA rules and I'm just going off examples of SCA weapons that I have seen or handled.

Julian
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the interest.

My take was as Julian suggests, that you relax your grip on impact and let the hand slide down the stick.

Tod

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I LOVE these. Thanks for the idea. Will make a pair for my son and I immediately. :-) I love stuff like this.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, this is where I got that antique image: http://fencingclassics.wordpress.com/2009/01/.../#more-833

Text:
The basket-hilt of this British singlestick is made from boiled leather, which is as stiff and hard as plastic. The stick is inserted through a leather tube that is integrated into the hilt, thus forming an instant leather cover around the ash stick that formed the “blade”.

Just wondered how this would work, and if it might be meant to help the stick slide a bit in a thrust.

-Sean

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David Clark





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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julian Reynolds wrote:
I was under the impression, with SCA basket hilts, that the rattan was fixed in place with screws or jubilee clips (hose clips?). I wasn't aware that the rattan could move freely through the guard, but then I don't fight SCA rules and I'm just going off examples of SCA weapons that I have seen or handled.

Julian


SCA baskets are held on with strapping tape usually, but some do use hose clips (not recommended as the metal gets stressed and breaks away). But no, they don't slide up and down the weapon (which is a really cool concept Happy ), but the overall look is the same.
I would bet anything the design/idea to use basket hilts for SCA were taken straight from these Straight Sticks. Big Grin
http://www.anshelmarms.com/images/arms/baskethilt.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5108/5574431949_779c04bb66.jpg
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Julian Reynolds




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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Singlesticks were found everywhere one practised swordsmanship, in Victorian times, throughout the Empire and beyond. There are literally hundreds of images and descriptions of them being used as training aids for sabre (cavalry and infantry) or Scottish broad/backsword etc. (even cutlass?). Not to mention their use in their own right, in competition or for wager. A truly classic 'weapon' used by the common man in the pub back-room through to the noble-born guards officer in the barracks gymnasium!

Julian
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is really nice Tod!
We use singlesticks a lot in our classes, but none of them is as nice as this one. Out of curiosity, how much would that one cost?
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Singlestick also used to be in the Olympics. It's a ridiculously fun sport to play, and excellent as a side-by-side companion to sword training. I admit to being a "sissy" when I play it, though, as my partners and I wear facial protection, which is not part of the original rules. Happy
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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
... It's a ridiculously fun sport to play... I wear facial protection, which is not part of the original rules.


Speaking of which, what are the "rules" of said cudgeling?

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I've recently been getting into the idea of a Prizefight style curricula (e.g. learning foil for smallsword, singlstick for back/broadsword, etc.) and this is pretty core to that.

As I currently understand it: front or/and back foot can/'t move (slipping might be allowed?), distance is either with opponents front feet next to one another or further apart but head still within strike range without having to pass or step forward, elbow up, hand can/cannot be used for parrying, strikes anywhere but only blows to the head count. Is that about it?

Also, I'm trying to make a pair, and have access to cherry tree branches. Would they be suitable?

Who needs synthetic when you've got sticks!

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Philip Dyer





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PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bill Grandy wrote:
Singlestick also used to be in the Olympics. It's a ridiculously fun sport to play, and excellent as a side-by-side companion to sword training. I admit to being a "sissy" when I play it, though, as my partners and I wear facial protection, which is not part of the original rules. Happy

Why did they discontinue singlestick and only have wire sword fighting today?
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 28 Aug, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a US Navy singlestick from the 19th century:

















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