Albion Kingmaker vs A&A Cavalier Rapier vs A&A Town Guard? -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject:

Everything about the TG exudes quality design and craftsmanship. No worries there. You can have no doubt that the way it feels is the way the type should feel.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

I've said it many times, even "true" rapiers would challenge the preconceived notions many modern collectors/enthusiasts have about what a rapier is. Many are quite heavy and robust. They're large swords with long blades, and while many are balanced quite well for the thrust (or slashing tip cuts), they are far, far from being anything at all like a foil.

Having said that, and getting back more to this topic, another thing that is all too common is that people see a compound hilt and assume the sword is a rapier. This topic is very refreshing in that those participating here have appropriately made the distinction.

Arms & Armor has many swords with compound hilts that are really not rapiers at all. The Town Guard sword, Dresden "Rapier", and even the Cavalier come to mind. They're all robust swords, albeit different from one another, that happen to have complex hilts attached to them. All fantastic in their own way!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject:

I hope I didn't confuse the issue by my ironic use of "rapiers." To many folks (even some museums) any edged weapon with a complex hilt is considered such. It's a shorthand that obscures more than it reveals.

The TG is a field sword/arming sword. I sold mine to celebrate the recession, but it might be the most overall impressive sword I've owned. It would certainly be in the top of the list with the A&A "Milanese Rapier" and EBE hanger.

Lloyd Winter · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject:

it always makes me laugh when someone refers to my Dresden as a rapier.
Or my German longsword with the complex hilt.

Leelund K · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject:

Last summer was the first time I got to see original complex-hilted swords in person (behind glass) at the Met. The incredible variety of blades struck me. They had quite a few that looked like impressive cleavers and many that had blades that were as thin as modern epee blades (though diamond sectioned and much longer); they also had everything in between. The variety was quite stunning, as if everyone commissioned a blade exactly the way they wanted. The museum lumped all these blades into the category of "rapier." Given the variations within the collection, it did seem weird to lump them into one large category. On the flip side, I wouldn't know where to draw the line. I guess Oakeshott's test is a good start?

Originally, I was after an arming sword, preferably with a Type XV or XVIII blade, but after hearing of/seeing swords with an arming blade and a complex hilt, I couldn't help but being a bit intrigued.

A&A's site dates the original Town Guard at 1610. Would a sword like this have encountered/been expected to encounter full plate armor?

Also back to my original post, does anyone have experience with the A&A Cavalier Rapier?

Leelund K · Posted: Sun 02 Nov, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject:

Hey Lee,

Did your Town Guard arrive yet? If so, what do you think?

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 7:52 am Post subject:

Just give it up. You're eventually going to want both, and the only real question is which one you should get first. I've handled both -- sadly, neither were mine -- and I'm pretty certain that I'm never going to be satisfied until I have both of them on my (still rather sparsely-populated) wall of swords.

Leelund K · Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 8:50 am Post subject:

Lafayette, that is precisely the question! I AM trying to decide on which I want FIRST! Big Grin

I'm pretty sure that the Town Guard is what I'm saving up for next, but if a killer deal comes up on any of the others, I might be tempted to reorder my list.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 11:08 am Post subject:

Leelund: The TG could have faced everything from no armour of any kind (infantry) up to three-quarter plate (heavy cavalry). No sword is designed to get through plate, of course, but this one would do the things Silver prescribed--cut armour straps, for example--as well as thrust deep into any gaps. I'd say it's robust enough to survive direct strikes against harness in attempts to stun or cause blunt trauma, but you wouldn't want to make it a habit. Any sword will fail with that kind of repeated use.

Leelund K · Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks Sean. I wasn't sure if this sword was developed after plate armor became uncommon. Thanks for clarifying.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Nov, 2014 7:04 am Post subject:

This is an excellent representation of the variety of arms and armour this sword would have faced (image ca. 1581): http://www.lib.ed.ac.uk/about/bgallery/Galler...60_jpg.htm

Note the half-harness on the pikemen, helmet-only on the musketeers and three-quarter harness on the cavalry (although the same series shows borders/light cavalry in mail shirts).

Leelund K · Posted: Wed 05 Nov, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject:

Very helpful picture, Sean!