Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > DIY Scabbard ThreadDIY Project Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next 
Author Message
Craig Shira




Location: California
Joined: 02 Feb 2007

Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Final         Reply with quote

.

I dyed everything black on the scabbard, so the boo-boo is hardly noticeable and those I've shown it to think it looks decorative and intentional.

I used a pricker to space my stitching holes so they would be evenly spaced apart. And I used a straight edge to cut my leather so my lines would be straight. Somehow my seam ended up all over the place. Perhaps the way I handled the wet leather caused my seam to not be straight. For my next scabbard, I will try to keep better attention to my seam and I won't use an X stitch.

I also made a sword belt, which I dyed yellow. For the next one, the straps going around the scabbard need to be a little tighter. Considering how much my leather shrank on the scabbard, I was a little more generous with those straps and they are a little loose. With force, they might slide over my risers. If one of them does pop over, the best solution will be to cut them off and make new, tighter fitting straps. At this point, I am still experimenting with the sword belt, which is 1 inch in width.

.



 Attachment: 469.54 KB
Scabbard Dyed.jpg
Finished.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 24 Feb, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scabbard for my Albion Huskarl
Birch wood core (1/8" thick maximum)
Lined with cow hair
Slider is made from ram's horn
3-4 oz. veg tan cover
Hardware is from Armour & Castings



 Attachment: 83.64 KB
IMGP3844.jpg


 Attachment: 96.36 KB
IMGP3855.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 727

PostPosted: Sun 26 Feb, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well Harry your quest for historical exactitude and semi-professional quality scabbard making* has certainly advanced yet again. I appreciate your dedication. I'm all thumbs, or I'd be right there with you. Excellent work.

*I only say semi-professional quality because AFAIK you don't make scabbards for other people for money. You probably could if you wanted.


Last edited by J. Nicolaysen on Sun 26 Feb, 2017 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 727

PostPosted: Sun 26 Feb, 2017 9:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach H. wrote:
I made a very simple scabbard for my Albion Gallowglass. I didn't base it off one pictorial source but combined a few to get an idea of what a Gaelic Irish scabbard would have looked like at the time. I also tried my had at carving in a Claddagh on the leather chape. I'd like to make a new one once I get more practice under my belt.

http://imgur.com/dPNoDU9

http://imgur.com/NfVkyXb


Zach I missed your scabbard the first time around, but it's quite nice and I have always found the fringed leather look of those Irish scabbards intriguing. Well done.
View user's profile Send private message
R Bodley





Joined: 10 Mar 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 02 May, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am looking at doing a sandwich method style scabbard. however I have absolutely no power tools besides a drill. Are there any inexpensive (under $50 US) tools that I could use to make quicker work of shaping the scabbard?
View user's profile Send private message
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue 02 May, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Shaping a scabbard         Reply with quote

Hi

One of your better investments might be a hand plane, more specifically a low angle block plane. Follow this with a card scraper.

You could cheat by making the sandwich fairly square and then shape it with the block plane to rough shape and fine it down with the card scraper.

I've made 3 or 4 scabbards this way

I'm assuming you are planning on using poplar was the wood - it is soft and works very easily

cheers
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Tue 16 May, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

R Bodley wrote:
Are there any inexpensive (under $50 US) tools that I could use to make quicker work of shaping the scabbard?

Recently I used a Stanley #151 spokeshave hand plane for shaping, and it worked really well. A spokeshave was designed to make the spokes on wagon wheels, so they're better designed for carving curved surfaces than a block plane.

Spokeshaves come with either a flat base or a curved base. For shaping a scabbard, I think the flat face would be excellent, but either will work. You can buy them very cheaply - like $10 or $15. Get an oil or waterstone to keep the blade the sharp while you're working.



 Attachment: 36.24 KB
Vintage-Stanley-151-Spokeshave-Spoke-Shave-Woodworking-Tool-_1.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
R Bodley





Joined: 10 Mar 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 28 May, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. As far as whetstones go, what kind of grit should I be getting in order to keep it sharp?
View user's profile Send private message
Terry Thompson




Location: Suburbs of Wash D.C.
Joined: 17 Sep 2010

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Mon 29 May, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you don't have power tools, I think the "bent slat" method requires the least tools. The only tools I use are $1 clamps (maybe 20 of them) a razor knife/box cutter, a wood rasp (looks like a tiny cheese grater) and spray grease. Plus obviously, sandpaper (50, 100, 220 grits, in that order).

I just made 3 scabbard cores this week. The ones for the vassal are sandwich method but do have some bending of the slats involved. They required the additional use of a small hobby saw for making the filler pieces (as on the spine). YMMV

-Terry



 Attachment: 55.28 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 33.19 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Marian Arlt




Location: Mexico
Joined: 08 Jul 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jul, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject: Issues while wrapping the core         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I am by no means an expert at craftsmanship but I wanted to try to make some swords with scabbards for an upcoming event. For starters I decided for a curved saber type (it appears I like to torture myself) made out of an old machete I had lying around. The rust had already stained the steel deeply and even after removing quite some material with the angle grinder some stains just won't disappear. It's actually not that bad at all since it gives it some really old look and feel which I am after.

For the scabbard I read the very well explained tutorial on yeoldegaffers which I find often linked to. I recycled some super cheap plywood sheet I had and went for the layered method. I am quite happy with the result. I cut out some artificial leather (for economical reasons) to get the thickness down and the blade fits snug.





I even made a little chape which was a pain in the *** to make with just a 3lb hammer and no anvil or other heavy thing to bash against. This resulted in lots of headache, really badly improvised working methods I would never advise in a YouTube video, some blood and a really badly marked chape. Again this gives a really used look and I like it. Here's some images of that (note that this was a completely clean and plane piece of metal sheet prior to hammering):




Now comes the time when I want to cover my scabbard. This is where I'm writing this in hopes of advice from people who have apparently done quite a few of these. I begin with a big fat no-go for probably most if not any of you which is artificial leather, which is just some synthetic plastic crap. I do understand that this has nowhere the properties of real leather hide which is what one wants for this kind of job. But I'm in a very small town in central Mexico and processed leather is really expensive even more so when it's just for a one-time-use project. Also my issue would still remain even with animal hide.
Now the real issue I got here is the curved scabbard core. Apparently it is very hard to wrap basically anything flat around a curved surface without folding it over one or more times according to the curve. (I guess that's one of the functions of the chape to hide this kind of detail?)




My question really is this: Is there anybody with experience on this type of scabbard willing to share some tips and tricks? (I see a LOT of straight ones [guess now I know why]) Of course I could just keep the wooden core as is and paint it, I am aware of my options. What I lack is experience in wrapping up curved things.

Also one minor thing. Harry Marinakis said this on the previous page talking about the leather stitching pattern:
Quote:
"For medieval scabbards, 1/4 inch spacing is about right. The X stitch, though, is not period."

Which ones are historically correct?

Thank you for your time. There's some really nice tips and work shown in this forum.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, England
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jul, 2017 4:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A tip for fitting a curved piece like that (this also works for gun holsters, and other bits of curved leather), is to take masking tape and wrap it around the scabbard like a mummy (one can, and it is often beneficial to, use news paper/butchers paper/ etc.. and wrap the tape more loosely --this conserves the amount of tape needed and makes it easier to remove). Then draw the seam down the side of the scabbard with a pen, and slit along your 'seam' with a razor blade or a knife. You then peel back your copy, and it even has a tacky side to help stick it down on the back of your leather/cloth. Using the same pen, you now trace your pattern and cut it out.

You can glue your piece of leather to the core, to keep it in place, and then stitch it down as you go. Your seam should follow that original pen line. If it gets too small at any point, or won't stretch properly, just wet the leather and it will stretch around the difficult/tight spot.

One thing I would say --in the future don't line a scabbard in pleather or other faux leather-- its made from rubber and with trap moisture in the scabbard causing 1. the blade to stick 2. rust. Cloth/felt is better and probably even cheaper!

-Hadrian

P.S. There is no research that I can think of to suggest an X stitch is "not accurate".. there is not enough data to suggest this claim. Most scabbards do not show stitching remnants. An S stitch is the easiest.. but there are a variety of types on knife scabbards (see Knives and Scabbards). Blind stitching, the most complicated, seems relatively common. In fact I think there is an X stitched medieval scabbard in Dublin.

P.P.S. If you finish up, heres a decoration idea from a similarly shaped scabbard!



 Attachment: 115.45 KB
[ Download ]

Historia magistra vitae est
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Terry Thompson




Location: Suburbs of Wash D.C.
Joined: 17 Sep 2010

Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jul, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A single running stitch or even a lacing (spiral/helix) stitch appears to be most common or possibly the standing seam (saddle stitch). I don't remember who said it, but I'm pretty sure someone mentioned that there has ever been an example of criss-cross stitching on an extant SWORD scabbard. It may not hold true for a knife or dagger sheath.

The difficulty you will have with the synthetic or fake leather is the lack of stretch, and the fact that it won't shrink to fit the core when it dries. Natural vegetable tanned leathers are more forgiving to work with; giving a good deal of stretch while still damp or wet. And then shrinking to a snug fit as it dries. No glue required.

Here's an example of a MOL knife scabbard (14-15 cen) with evidence of a lacing (spiral) stitch.
http://collections.museumoflondon.org.uk/online/object/32500.html

And here is the lacing stitch on the back of one of my scabbards (Albion Poitiers) with the lacing in place.



If you don't have access to vegetable tanned leather, you might want to consider fabric covering like velvet or wool. It will have more stretch and be more authentic than synthetic or PU material.

Don't quote me, but I believe that someone did an assessment of known historical sword scabbards in museums and most were found to have a glue-on affixed covering where evidence exists, rather than being stitched. I think we tend to stitch scabbard covers on because if we mess-up, we can easily cut it off and do it over again. But if we glue it on and either mess-up or change your mind about color/tooling, your going to be remaking your scabbard core as well.
I have spray-glued (cheated) a velvet cover to a scabbard. That worked very well and was very quick, but the back seam looked ugly and I doubt it would have worn well.

I keep intending to do a glue-on covering for a scabbard one of these days, but I feel like it will be very messy and very large amount of screwing up the leather finish.
-Terry


Last edited by Terry Thompson on Sun 09 Jul, 2017 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Marian Arlt




Location: Mexico
Joined: 08 Jul 2017

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jul, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hadrian and Terry thank you for your comments on this. Very much appreciated and I'll have all of this in mind. Especially your very detailed tip on manouvering the curve is highly appreciated and of course your thoughts on fabrics and stitches are just as much. Actually the standing stitch ain't one of my favourites but it's the most commonly used here in the region on older machete sheaths. I'll definetly try my luck and see.

Now that I think about it there's another detail I'm struggling with. What's a good length for a belt? I measure my waist at about ~34" (~90cm) and the usual belts I got and use are about ~40" (~105cm) but I guess with the wrap around the scabbard I'd need some extra there?
And to top it all of maybe you can give me a direction to what kind/strength of thread I'd need for sewing. I'll go see some in a few on my own but it'd nice to hear what the professionals recommend, there's little information about these important details around.

Greetings from Mexico
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marcus Kouma





Joined: 10 Mar 2007

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've gone and made another scabbard (my second one to-date), and I'm quite happy with how it came out.



View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 3:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tried another period method of building a wood core, following the instructions given by Peter Johnsson on another forum. This is a really beautiful method, pretty easy, and you can get a perfect fit in no time.

It's basically a laminate method. I started with a sheet of 1/4-inch Poplar for the center lamination, and planed it down to 1/8-inch thick, cut to the shape of the scabbard. I used this as a template to make 4 other copies from 1/32-inch Birch plywood.

The I cut out the center of the Poplar for the sword, and used that as a template to cut out 2 strips of cow skin for the liner. I glued the liners onto the 1/32" Birch plates.

Then I glued 2 sheets of 1/32" Birch together for the front scabbard plate, and another 2 sheets for the rear scabbard plate. I clamped these around my sword and let the glue dry. This gave me two convex scabbard plates. If the wood core is warped or flexed in any way when you are gluing the 1/32" laminates together, then you will end up with a warped or flexed wood core.

Then I glued one scabbard plate onto the Poplar core, clamping along the edges until the glue dried. I clamped the other scabbard plate into position (along the edges only, no glue), and checked the fit of the sword. If the sword is too loose, then just sand down the Poplar sheet so it is a little thinner.

When the fit was good, then I glued the other scabbard plate into position.

There is very little sanding to get a finished wood core.

The scabbard walls are so thin that the walls flex when the sword is inserted. This allows for an easy, smooth draw but still holds the sword firmly in the wood core.



 Attachment: 79.22 KB
IMGP2916b.jpg


 Attachment: 90.22 KB
IMGP2928b.jpg


 Attachment: 82.95 KB
IMGP2965b.jpg


Firesteel Designs
Hand-crafted good lovingly infused with hemoglobin
View user's profile Send private message
Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,071

PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very well done harry!
I've been willing to try Peter's method for a while and seeing what you achieved I'm sold.
Fact is, I've moved on to use plywood a while ago and made 6 or 7 cores in a couple of afternoons instead of one using my previous chisel in hand method from half an inch thick poplar slats. It makes for a thinner an more even core and since then I've never looked back.
I still don't get the purpose of the lamination using several layer of very thin plywood as I usually manage with a single thicker one (after soaking and leaving to shape on the blade for a few days).
In truth the fit is too tight using my approach and I often had to split the scabbard open on one side to insert/glue thin straps of veneer (very effective and not very labor intensive but still annoying).
Have you documented the full step by step by any chance?
Anyway great looking core and looking forward to see the finished piece.
Best,
J

ps: been willing to chime in this thread for a while but never found the time. Will post my stuff in there too someday!
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a step-by-step tutorial for making a veneer wood core, based on the work of Peter Johnsson:

https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/36723-making-a-scabbard-with-a-veneer-core/

This is my experience, and remember that I am an amateur!

My method is different from Mr. Johnsson's in that I add a central spacer between the front and rear scabbard veneer plates. I found that making the wood core without the spacer makes the wood core too tight for the sword.

So the basic construction is a central spacer, and 2 veneer plates on either side of the spacer (4 total).

A lining material is optional.

I use 1/4-inch thick Poplar sheet from my local hardware store for the spacer.

I order 1/32-inch thick Birch plywood from a model airplane store for the veneer.



 Attachment: 45.76 KB
back 2.jpg


Firesteel Designs
Hand-crafted good lovingly infused with hemoglobin


Last edited by Harry Marinakis on Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First, I start with the central spacer. For this I use a sheet of 1/4-inch thick Poplar.

Then I draw a center line all the way around the Poplar spacer. This helps me center the sword on the sheet, and also gives me a mark on the end of the board where the point of the wood core should be.



 Attachment: 85.13 KB
IMGP2890.JPG


Firesteel Designs
Hand-crafted good lovingly infused with hemoglobin


Last edited by Harry Marinakis on Fri 08 Feb, 2019 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I center the sword on the Poplar spacer, and cut as necessary to match the crossguard (here the guard is straight so I didn't have to do anything fancy).

I draw a line all the way around the blade.



 Attachment: 84.02 KB
IMGP2894.JPG


Firesteel Designs
Hand-crafted good lovingly infused with hemoglobin
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Then I draw another line around the blade, this time with a 3/8-inch margin. This margin serves as the base onto which you will glue the veneers, so make it as small as you dare. I wouldn't go any narrower than 1/4 inch until you've mastered this technique.


 Attachment: 81.61 KB
IMGP2896.JPG


Firesteel Designs
Hand-crafted good lovingly infused with hemoglobin
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > DIY Scabbard ThreadDIY Project
Page 6 of 8 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2019 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum