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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,289

PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2014 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Triumph of the Archangel Michael over Satan is the meme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Michael_(Roman_Catholic)

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2014 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are quite a few versions of Michael defeating Satan; however, to my knowledge, the Navarre Picture Bible is the only version that clearly depicts the weapon as having a spear head.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Raman A wrote:
Isn't that just a boar sword?

It could be a boar sword, although I am not sure that it is for two reasons. First, my understanding is that boar swords appear circa 1500; the Pisani-Dossi Ms. dates to 1409. Secondly, when you look at extant antique boar swords, every one that I have seen has a very narrow section near the strong of the blade, and basically remains narrow until the point. Some have a ricasso, but otherwise fit this description. By contrast, the illustration in Fiore looks like it depicts a sword that really does have a profile taper, although the blade at the strong is still somewhat narrow. Fiore's sword looks like it could be an XVa or similar weapon with a spear point at the end.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 04 Jun, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dating from 1550, the Geschlechterbuch der Stadt Augsburg can hardly be said to be from the Middle Ages, no matter what definition one uses for "medieval". Still, it depicts some absolutely fabulous arms and armour, and many examples of exotic, fantasy-type arms that fit perfectly with the theme of this thread. Really, the Geschlecterbuch deserves a thread all of its own, but here's just a few examples of the many extraordinary illustrations that it contains:







































Source: http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00...pdfseitex=
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The knight in the upper left, who's tipping up the visor on his helmet, has a rather odd looking weapon. Image from the Queen Mary Psalter.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4154/12090/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 12:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've posted this elsewhere, but here it is again, from the Roman de Brut, Edward III: Destruction de Rome.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4100/12707/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another interesting glaive, from The Taymouth Hours.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4181/10662/
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 731

PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is such an interesting thread. Great topic idea and fantastic pictures.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think this example is probably just an artistic error, rather than attempting to represent an exotic weapon. Nevertheless, the monstrous figure in this manuscript illustration appears to be holding a sword/club hybrid. It's from Artus de Bretagne.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5207/16900/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 5:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The weapon on the left here looks like one in the Queen Mary Psalter. Here, it looks like a wooden club with a sharpened, metal edge and hook.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4071/7164/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 5:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The polearm in the background here looks like a military fork with a back spike and a fluke. This is Speculum humanae salvationis, imperfect.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4177/13102/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 5:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another image that has been posted elsewhere, this two-handed sword seems like a strange form of falchion.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4373/7073/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In this case, the weapon carried by the front knight has a name: it seems to be a planšon Ó picot. Given how rarely they seem to be represented in art- this is the first one I've seen- I've included it just the same. You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan%C3%A7on_a_picot



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4013/11407/
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William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 263

PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That fantasy falchion looks like another fantasy sword... orcrist!
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It can be easy to forget that fantasy weapons need not be exotic nor unusual. By taking an ordinary weapon and increasing its size such that it is a hyperbole of real life weapons, one can create a fantasy weapon. The illustrator of this manuscript seems to have fairly closely followed the Biblical description of Goliath's massive spear, and depicted one with similarly massive proportions. This comes from BL Royal 6 E VI Omne Bonum, A-D.



Source:http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4171/13090/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The far right soldier in the front carries a very odd weapon. When I initially looked at it, I thought the weapon was supposed to be a javelin with fletches, shown with the back end facing forward, and the artist mistakenly coloured the fletches and haft grey. But, looking closer, this interpretation does not make sense; the grey coloured section looks completely wrong as a javelin with fletches. The weapon looks vaguely reminiscent of a badly drawn winged spear, or a similarly distorted partizan, but neither of these fit either. Perhaps it is some sort of bludgeoning weapon? Alternative interpretations are more than welcome. This comes from the Morgan Weltchronik.



Source: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4693/12807/
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,289

PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Considering half the point is buried in the downed man's ass cheek, I suspect it's the exact same as the spear on the far left.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Raman A




Location: United States
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe that it's just a normal spear but the head is buried partly in the corpse. It's consistent with the way spears are depicted in the manuscript.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/manuscr...850-24.jpg
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps it should not be considered a fantasy piece, but the hafted weapon to the far left is fairly unique. I wondered if it might be an instrument of torture, given the context of this image. However, the same weapon shows up again in the manuscript, and the second time, it is unambiguous that it is a weapon, not an instrument of torture. In form, its similar to a war hammer, save that it does not have a flat face for striking. This is from Politica & Economica.



Here's the second image, showing it clearly in a military context:



Sources: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4953/14963/ and http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4953/14965/
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 05 Jun, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm... I had not realized that the weapon was supposed to be stuck in a person, but now that you mention it, that interpretation makes sense. Oh well.
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