Is it worth DIYing a sword...? -- myArmoury.com

Bryan Heff · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject:

My Erbach was a noodle, felt like a ribbon in the wind when in motion. Many people really like them. Had it been stiffer I would have never let it go. I love the looks and proportions of this sword, really beautiful.

Will S · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject:

Would that be down to the blade geometry, or the whippy curse of windlass?

Bryan Heff · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject:

Will S · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject:

Cheers Bryan, appreciate the help!

Phil D. · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject:

I own a Windlass Erbach. It is actually very nice and light. It should be easy to handle in single hand fashion.

Will S · Posted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject:

Awesome, this is exactly what I was after!

Thanks Phil.

Jeffrey Faulk · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 8:47 am Post subject:

The only thing I would suggest if you go for a Windlass is to either:

--Purchase it from a place where you can go through their stock and pick a good one. Not very feasible in the UK, I fear, but worth trying.

--Purchase it from someplace with a very good return/exchange policy

--If you get a lemon, be willing to engage in drastic surgery Happy

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:02 am Post subject:

I've owned/worked on three Erbach blades and multiple HT blades (one bastard, two longsword, one fullered bastard). The Erbach and HT bastard have their applications, but I don't think they're interchangeable.

For most Type XVIII applications, the plain HT bastard is the superior choice. Obviously, if you want a broad blade or want to re-purpose the furniture, get the Erbach.

The Erbach blade is good for projects in the range of about 1480-1525, and in the German/Austrian style. I've sometimes thought it would make a nice poor-man's Type XVIIIc of an earlier period, or even an interpretation of the Dresden schlactswhert shown below, but it would be a slightly scaled-down version of those types. It's broad and thin, with predictable handling results that are not necessarily a-historical. Having never flexed a late 15th c. sword of this (or any other) type, I can't say how far it falls from the tree. I note, however, that somebody (Peter Johnsson?) has stated elsewhere here that German smiths realized in the late 15th c. how to create broad, very thin blades. That doesn't mean those blades were as thin as the Erbach right through the blade and tang, and I would expect even those German blades to be thicker in their tang and upper blade. But for cheap projects in that culture and period, go for it. I really like this blade, aesthetically, and the design isn't too troubling for those projects. As a practical matter, I might not want to use the Erbach blade for anything much if it were as robust as the HT. Any long blade can be used for a single-hand project. You simply turn upper-blade into tang as needed to achieve balance. Just give some thought to the heat treatment of the steel you're moving up into the hilt. Windlass swords seem to be hard right through the tang, so there's not much to stop you in their case. In my experience, Windlass tangs are so hard that I have to anneal the end of the tang before I can peen. Not so with the HTs I've hit.

The narrower and thicker HT bastard has a MUCH broader chronological/cultural range. I'd say the practical end date for that would be sometime around the mid-17th c. Consult Oakeshott for the start of steel Type XVIII. It's good for arming swords with any sort of hilt. It should be fine single hand without taking any blade for tang, or with the original bastard-length grip. This is a stiff blade. The tang and max blade thickness is around .25," which puts Windlass to shame. I think these are a great value. You'll have more finish work to do compared to the Windlass, but you'll also feel that you have a "real" sword.

Will S · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:24 am Post subject:

Thanks Sean. At the risk of sounding ignorant (I am really clueless on this stuff, and have only just scratched the surface in terms of what belongs in what period etc) are you saying that the Windlass Erbach blade isn't suitable for a 1415 sword?

I was playing around with making the blades full length in photoshop and comparing the relative widths and tapers to photographs of medieval swords from Oakeshott RotMS and a couple of Albion swords such as the Poitiers and Kingmaker (I fancy something between the two - not as tapered a blade as the XV but with the Poitiers' simple hilt) and the Erbach blade seems far closer in dimension to these, whereas the H/T Bastard seemed incredibly narrow compared to everything else I could find.

It felt more sensible being a bastard sword as compared to a single-hander, and I didn't want to risk going though a load of (what will be for me) extensive modifications and ending up with a single-handed sword with what seems like an overly narrow blade.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:43 am Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:55 am Post subject:

FWIW, here are two Erbach projects to provide a sense of scale for these blades. These are in the date range I mentioned above, but the blade is probably better matched to the project at top. Note that in the lower project I've increased grip length by turning blade into tang. The hollow grind is not really as pronounced as it appears in this lighting. These are thin blades. They can certainly balance well and you wouldn't want to get hit with a blunt, much less a sharp. They're cutting swords.

Will S · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 11:56 am Post subject:

I gotcha. I really should have looked at these before posting countless questions! Thanks again!

That Met sword you mentioned is beautiful. I was thinking of just copying the Poitiers' cross but seeing this one I might have to get one of each made up and see what looks the best with the shorter grip.

Much appreciated, as always!

Edit: That is some beautiful work, Sean. Congrats. I love the look of that blade profile with the chappe.

Phil D. · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject:

Sean has a great eye.I personally love the Met sword as well. Museum Replicas/Windlass made a replica at one time.I highly recommend it if you can find one. A menacing looking sword. It is slightly shorter but broader than the Erbach and handles incredibly well. In my mind either sword is fantastic.

You can see both swords in better scale to each other below:

Phil D. · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject:

This company may still carry it...

http://www.firebloodarms.com/swords/arbedo-sword.html

Will S · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks Phil! I've committed myself to the Erbach now, and look forward to ripping it apart and hopefully putting it back together with some new bits. I'm sold on that Arbedo cross though, it's beautiful. Shame the erbach doesn't taper quite as much, but variations are what provide character I believe!

Phil D. · Posted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject:

Awesome,can't wait to see what you put together.

Here is a thread that may interest you if you are looking for different fittings...

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18924

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 7:23 am Post subject:

Here are a few more reference shots for you and others interested in these blades. The tang shot has the HT on the left, Erbach on the right. Blade shot has HT on top. The hilted shot, showing a hand for scale, demonstrates that the HT has good width and looks good with an earlier hilt type.

Will S · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject:

Good pics, very useful. I'm amazed at the difference between the tang thicknesses, that's really surprising. In your experience would you say the Windlass is narrower than "normal" if a possible comparison to general swords can be made?

I've never changed my mind so many times as a result of one conversation! I'm swinging back towards wanting the Hanwei now but it's too late. I'll have to just make the Erbach as good as I can possibly make it.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject:

I'd say that's a typical Windlass tang. I've noticed that the tangs of two recent examples--this Erbach and the "pirate captain's hanger" were much sloppier than they used to be, but they're dimensionally typical.

As for it being "too late" to use the HT. Heheheh...as if this is your last sword project! Laughing Out Loud

Don't hesitate to check in with us as you get into the project. At some point you'll wish you hadn't started, but there are folks here who can talk you through to a great finish.