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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Sat 15 Feb, 2014 6:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Gaber wrote:
i just wish if it were cheaper.the best option is the four classes for 100, i think.


I paid off four classes(or three) at Martinez academy of arms last year, and I still have two or three classes left. Maybe you could go there and tell them Lee can't make it to the class anymore and if you can take them instead?
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sat 15 Feb, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward lee, much obliged.i will call them tomorrow and let them know about what you have said.lets see what is gonna happen.i wont do anything till i get the final ok from you.by the way do i have to pay for the classes if they accept me to use your credit?
Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Sun 16 Feb, 2014 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think so. I already paid for four classes and went to one, and if you go there the first time you get 30 mins free lesson. I think I wrote down either Edward Lee or Jin Li for the application. You can ask them if you can take the lessons I paid for instead because I couldn't make it.
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Feb, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

will do. thankx man.i will let you know as soon i call them on monday.
Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Feb, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hey Edward Lee.i just hang up the phone with maestro Martinez and he said the classes is 30 usds and 4 classes for 90 usds.
oh he also said that classes got to be done with in 5 weeks,or you gotta contact them and let them know if you couldn't complete them in that set time.so sorry for the news i guess. anyhow i am gonna take the free class he offered and i will see from there. thankx for the offer

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Tue 18 Feb, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that. When I get more free time I will try NYC longsword with my friend. He went there couple times already and he liked it.
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Feb, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could ask to sit in and watch a class at each venue, then decide which one you fit in best with.
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Feb, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi Edward,ya i hear real good thing about NYC sword class.that is where they(NY long sword) train for long sword .

Matthew couldn't agree more.1st class is free at Martinez academy(Maestro Martinez promised me so) one class is for 25$ and 4 for 90$.however NYC sword is 10$ introductery class.one for 30$ and 4 for 100$
since i dont have any experience in swords.i think any thing will be good.dont have an idea what should i look for.

ANY TIPS ANY ONE?what should you look for?

since seems no one teaches the style i would like to learn(middle eastern esp 12-14 century)they used staright swords with rounded point(sometimes).and toward the end of 12th cen. they used a hybrid between Messer and Falchion and saber.i was this kind of sword that the french copied and used it.then here comes the ottomans with their Kilic and scimitars.even that art of fencing their is no one to teach in NYC.

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Feb, 2014 12:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As I see it, you have several options here:

1. Save up for Manouchehr's book. In the meantime, you can check out online previews and excerpts and perhaps glean bits and pieces from online discussions on the style; this may give you some very basic material to practice with. It'd also be a good idea to work on some basic physical conditioning with a view to developing both cardiovascular stamina and muscular strength since you're obviously going to need both (and more wouldn't hurt if you already have some).

2. Find out several other people with the same interest and persuade them to pitch in for the book (and preferably just enough training gear to start with -- could be as simple as a few wooden swords). I think this course of action has the lowest probability of success in the short term, but if it works then it works like a damn.

3. Join an existing Eastern or Western martial art group and work your way up to become a reasonably respected member in the community; when that happens, you could bring up the subject of training in Middle-Eastern martial arts among some of your closest buddies, and if there's enough interest then you may be able to start a new group. Until then you'd at least be able to learn some of the basics about footwork, balance, and power generation. It might also give you time to save up for the book.

It's worth noting that while Manouchehr's book is probably the only one out there for Persian martial arts, I don't think it's the only one for the medieval Islamic principalities. If I remember correctly Osprey published a translation of a Mamluk furusiyya manual a few years ago and you may be able to find a copy for a reasonable price these days.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Thu 20 Feb, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not Osprey, but this sounds like it'd be worth checking out:

http://www.oztopcu.com/books/mamluk-kipchak-military.htm


Aaaand finally found the old Osprey publication. I don't know whether the article on the furusiyya manual is just a very general overview or something with more detailed explanations, though:

http://www.amazon.com/Osprey-Military-Journal...29-9354361


You might also want to have a look at the list near the bottom of this SFI thread:

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...ion-please
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Feb, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yaaaa,it looks like this all what is available online...i seen these and some other links that sums the trainning up to just swinging at clay mounds with 1,3,5 kilos swords and 1000 2000 and so on till they get to 5000 hits a day.they also employ 100 cotton sheets hanged on to steel sheet,swing try not to touch the steel.reducing the count of sheets of cotton over time.sometimes they will be ask to only cut through 5 sheets 25 or whatever number the moualem(teacher)ask them to do.oh and Pell work.

i could not find anything about stances, guard or attack.styles or any mention of foot work.they seem like they pay more attention to lance(great tool of warfare one of the best weapons)archery which is a talent and needs a lot of training also on my bucket list. also most of training is on horses which after all is a necessity back then.it is really hard to imagin an era where the sword is the tool of war back then.where there is no schools to teach the art to the public.i know mamaleek keept training to the army and the public is not allowed to train for fight.(so they dont rebell) at least that is what we been told back in Egypt in history classes,hard to believe.but they are the invaders after all.

A.Gaber

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you actually bought and checked out what's in the actual manuals, though? I wouldn't know myself since I haven't bought them either, but the highly condensed extracts in the Osprey article don't sound very representative of the actual breadth of the materials in the sources.
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sat 01 Mar, 2014 1:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the only book i could locate from CHarvey (swordfourm.com) on amazon is this one:(i even emailed him and he didnt respond back,hope he is ok and healthy)

[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841763942/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1IUSA509C2NFS

if you click on 'look inside' on the right corner of the book's page then scroll down to the content you will find that mamluk section is just 7 pages(page 42-50)how many things can you squeeze in seven pages?not enough for 20 dollars.while the book is interesting,all i care about is the manual. this not enough.

thinking a person with an arabic background will be able to locate all these manuals which is written in arabic after all,it is proven quite hard.harder than you think.A librarian i spoke to via email in Egypt asking about "Munyatu'l-Ghuzat"which translates roughly as" the conqueror manual"his first question was "what are you trying to conquer?lol"
needless to say i did not answer the email.
i think i am being lazy busy but i will join the NYC SWORD classes and report back here.long sword or any other is quite similar to the saber style and one handed straight swords they used back then.
thanks Lafayette,keep that thinking light of yours on and give me a buzz on the light goes of.
[/url]

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, then, the Osprey publication is probably just a print version of this:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/articles/medi...ng_manual/

Which sort of reinforces my point that the real manuals ought to be more comprehensive than that. However, there's still the option of Kurtulus Oztopcu's translation of a different manual:

http://www.oztopcu.com/books/mamluk-kipchak-military.htm

While it seems to be currently out of print, you might want to try contacting the author ( http://www.oztopcu.com/buy/index.htm ) just in case he has some POD (print-on-demand) arrangement in place.
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thank you so much for your help.you are putting a lot of effort on helping me on this,as much as my work to learn this elusive manuals.as for contacting the author i just did so,lets c if his email still active and yahoo doesn't send a reject delivery notice.

well the (ospreypublishing.com)artical you send me is quite different than the one i read written by someone else.that is interesting. thank you for sharing that with us here.

i am extending the invitation to anyone to provide any information here about the subject.it will be of a good use to someone else.

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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Posts: 702

PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Gaber wrote:
hi Edward,ya i hear real good thing about NYC sword class.that is where they(NY long sword) train for long sword .

Matthew couldn't agree more.1st class is free at Martinez academy(Maestro Martinez promised me so) one class is for 25$ and 4 for 90$.however NYC sword is 10$ introductery class.one for 30$ and 4 for 100$
since i dont have any experience in swords.i think any thing will be good.dont have an idea what should i look for.

ANY TIPS ANY ONE?what should you look for?

since seems no one teaches the style i would like to learn(middle eastern esp 12-14 century)they used staright swords with rounded point(sometimes).and toward the end of 12th cen. they used a hybrid between Messer and Falchion and saber.i was this kind of sword that the french copied and used it.then here comes the ottomans with their Kilic and scimitars.even that art of fencing their is no one to teach in NYC.


We're $10 a class and free when the summer comes round and we're not far from the city at all. Your welcome to speak to Tristan or Michael Edelson and enquire about us. Long Island Historical Fencing Society. just saying.

Winter is coming
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi Mike,thank you for your answer.2 hours from brooklyn by public transportation.
i think someone mention before that Michael Edelson does not teach anymore at swordclassnyc.
Tristan teaches beginners on fri 6 pm and again on sat 1 pm.

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hey to all interested in mamluk era manuals.i have found the AUC website(american university in Cairo)have a free download for Tafrij al-kurub fi tadbir al-hurub by ‘Umar ibn Ibrahim al-Awsi al-Ansari so i would like to share it here with everybody to read. i have not read it yet but i will do that as soon as possible

http://www.aucpress.com/p-4740-a-muslim-manual-of-war.aspx

how to make this link clickable?oh well copy and paste then

Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A. Gaber wrote:
thank you so much for your help.you are putting a lot of effort on helping me on this,as much as my work to learn this elusive manuals.


Well, to put it simply, many of the manuals we have on medieval European martial arts aren't very clear on many of the basic things you're interested in (stances, footwork, etc.), and a great deal of what we practice nowadays is the result of years of interpretation and experimental research. The fact that we don't (yet) have such an extensive and coherent curriculum for Middle/Near Eastern martial arts simply means that somebody has to start the research somewhere. Who knows if it might be you? Big Grin
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A. Gaber




Location: New York
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon 31 Mar, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

no stances no footwork?i guess looking at art work of the period helps in this case.it is going to take time.i just need a start somewhere.the thing is, the book that even talks about middle eastern saber fencing or any fencing is translated and out of print. that means the price is always high.100+dollars is such a normal no. for books that i am not even sure that will be useful.
Knowledge is a treasure, but practice is the key to it.

Fear not the man who fears God.
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