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Robin Smith
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 Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Harry Marinakis wrote: |
It's not that they don't have chapes, it's that most do not. |
We shall simply agree to disagree on that point. |
I'd have to back Harry up on this point, atleast insofar as that many seem not to have chapes.
The problem is that we don't have any good surviving examples from the 11th-12th C, so all we have to go on is the art. Now, by the late 13th we have a few good examples with chapes (the Turin St. M, the sword of King Sancho IV, the Sword of Infante Fernando).
We also do have some examples from the 10th C, but for the most part these seem to show that the chape was not in use in late Anglo-Saxon England or Carolingian Europe. (The chape did continue to be used in Scandinavia.)
So some point between the Carolingian period and 13th C, chapes came back into fashion. If artistic representations can be used as a guide, it seems to be a slow process and they are not ubiquitous in 12th C yet.
For citation purposes see:
Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York, by Mould, Carlisle, and Cameron
Entwicklung des Schwertes im Mittelalter, by Alfred Geibig
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Harry Marinakis
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| Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone! You are all great.
Back to the belt sander. I thinned out the entire core. Here's what I've got now. Looks much better, and is much lighter Thanks Patrick!
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Looks great. Once you get the leather cover on there I think you'll find it works much better. Great job on the grip too.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Julien M
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jan, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Marinakis wrote: | | Back to the belt sander. I thinned out the entire core. Here's what I've got now. |
I would not hesitate to shave off an additional millimetre, the thinner the better (as long as it doesn't compromise the solidity of the scabbard). Period scabbard core were were thin indeed (not to mention knife scabbards, a mere sandwich of paper thin veneer wrapped in leather (handled one in the MOL recently).
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Dean F. Marino
Location: Midland MI USA Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jan, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Harry Marinakis wrote: | Thanks everyone! You are all great.
Back to the belt sander. I thinned out the entire core. Here's what I've got now. Looks much better, and is much lighter Thanks Patrick! |
Just a wee bit more in the center portions... shoot for about an even 1/8" all around the actual blade opening. Now, others may feel this is too much - being a coward, I tend to worry about slamming into something, and cracking my core  .
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Harry Marinakis
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| Posted: Sun 19 Jan, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a dry fit of what I've got so far. I changed my color scheme; I really liked the natural color of the belt in contrast to the brown scabbard cover, so I left the belt undyed. I'm gonna have to darken up the sword's grip.
The photo doesn't really show it, but the natural belt came out kinda marbled after I burnished and sealed it with Resolene. At first I was a bit disappointed because that didn't happen with my test strips. But it's grown on me and the marbling gives the belt a subtle "worn" or "antiqued" character.
The light color of the belt also matches the light color of the sword belts seen in the manuscripts of the 12th Century, so it's a good fit I think.
I chickened out out and bought a chape. I've been fooling around with some test leather, and I'm not confident that I can make the tip look good without covering it up with a chape.
I sanded the poplar core as thin as I was willing to go. It's not quite as thin as Julien's, but maybe next time I'll be braver and sand it down more. I have 5 more scabbards to build....
I still have to glue and sew the cover into place.
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Bryan Heff
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| Posted: Mon 20 Jan, 2014 3:55 am Post subject: |
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That looks great. Your belt in particular is super clean work. The bordering lines you tooled in are key in my opinion. They really give the belt some dimension and texture. Great work!
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Harry Marinakis
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| Posted: Mon 20 Jan, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Bryan, I'm trying the keep the whole project simple in keeping with the simple scabbards of the 12th C.
I plan to make a much more ornate scabbard for my Type VXII sword.
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Harry Marinakis
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| Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Fini
Thank you everyone for your assistance.
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[ Download ]
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Tue 21 Jan, 2014 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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That's a fine piece of work.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Julien M
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| Posted: Wed 22 Jan, 2014 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Great work on the belt lacing Harry! Very neat cutting job. I have yet to try one of these earlier types and I can only hope to manage it as well as you did.
What's the thickness of your leather? I always use 3.5mm veg tan straps for XV century knotted scabbard suspensions, but looking at such belt configurations including yours I have the feeling that the leather is thinner. 3.5 mm leather would not produce a very aesthetic result if inserted through the core leather wrap...however thinner leather would make a rather limp belt.
I still think you should have removed more wood from the core
Very nice nonetheless, so looking forward to see your next one!
Cheers,
J
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Leo Rousseau
Location: France Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed 22 Jan, 2014 2:11 am Post subject: |
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This is a really eye catching work ! I love the colour contrast between the brown and the natural leather.
Julien : I don't see a problem using 3.5mm leather for scabbard lacing. You can always skive down the leather on the lacing area and keep the full thickness on the rest of the belt no ?
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Julien M
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| Posted: Wed 22 Jan, 2014 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Leo Rousseau wrote: | | Julien : I don't see a problem using 3.5mm leather for scabbard lacing. You can always skive down the leather on the lacing area and keep the full thickness on the rest of the belt no ? |
True you can do that, or choose the appropriate leather thickness to start with and keep it as idiot proof as possible
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Harry Marinakis
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| Posted: Wed 22 Jan, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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I agree, I should have thinned the core more aggressively.
Cover is 2-3 oz veg tan
Belt and lacing are 4-5 oz veg tan
4-5 oz seems too thick to be "period" but I made this one for heavy use.
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This is a standard topic
