[Raman A]

I'm looking for information on fifteenth century armets with "full" visors. Here's an example of what I mean:


http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4189896

Instead of the occularia being created by a gap between the visor and brow of the helmet like on typical fifteenth century armets, it's got a complete visor. Was this a later addition to an armet that had lost its visor, or is this visor contemporary with the helmet? I found a couple more examples in Sir Guy Francis Laking's A Record of European Armour and Arms Through Seven Centuries:

https://archive.org/stream/recordofeuropean02lakiuoft#page/82/mode/2up

Laking speculates that the full visor was the original form of the armet, and it was later replaced by a half-visor and brow reinforce. I'm not sure if his dating is correct, or even if the armets are originals. Does anyone know of any modern works discussing early full-visored armets? Were these visors even contemporary with the helmets or added later during the 16th-19th centuries? Does anyone know of any period artwork depicting armets of this form?

[Robert MacPherson]

Here are a couple in this fresco by Piero della Francesca. He is said to have painted it between 1458 and 1466.




Mac

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

Similar visors feature very prominently in Pisanello's frescoes in the Ducal Palace in Mantova (Mantua), which seems to represent a tournament. In the frescoes, their appearance is very reminiscent of those visors on grand bacinets that so much resemble 'frog mouthed' helms.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...p_01.1.jpg

[Raman A]

Robert and James: Thank you! Those frescoes are exactly the type of depiction I was looking for.

Does anyone have a comment about Laking's theory? He believed that the full-visor armet was the predecessor of the typical armet, and was developed directly from frog-mouth bascinets. I'm not so sure. The dates don't seem to line up correctly, it would seem that the full-visor was simply an alternative style.