Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Pike vs Spear Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 
Author Message
Phillip Oliver




Location: Franklin, VA
Joined: 14 Mar 2011

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon 25 Nov, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"It is obvious that pike due to being held in both arms will deal more damage than spear held underarm in one hand,"

A) Sounds more like Pike vs Lance

B) Does no one ever think about application vs situation in all these discussions? There are different pikes, and different spears, and they don't necessarily serve the same function or purpose. That's just my two cents.

There is only one way to Valhalla
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
Joined: 28 Feb 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,164

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For another source, Plutarch wrote that sarissas at Pyda pierced through all opposing shields and armor.
Read my historically inspired fantasy fiction in here. I walk along a winding path set by Ludovico Ariosto, William Morris, J. R. R. Tolkien, and Ursula Le Guin.

Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jaroslav Jakubov




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 26 Aug 2008

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Tue 26 Nov, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yes, i read that, thing is, at Pydna Roman losses were reported quite low.. just about 200 dead and wounded. and even if the actual number was 10x higher, it is still relatively low number if we assume pikes had no issues to penetrate shields and armor..

My thesis is that Pike was only able to penetrate shield and armor if it used the mass of men holding it and moving forward. This way, body mass and speed would increase the damage potential high enough for pike to pierce shields and armor, but once Phalanx stopped, and pikemen relied on their thrusts, they were no longer able to pierce shields. therefore they adopted tactics of pressing pikes against Roman shields so Roman legionaries couldn't get closer through.. with several pikes pressed against single shield, Legionary would be completely blocked, and even if he tried to cut of pike heads, it would not help him that much as pike without head can still be fixed against the shield to prevent him getting close... this is also something Polybius mentioned in his description of Pydna, and would explain also relatively low casualties on Roman side.. Phalanx once stopped, was good for fixing the enemy in place, but couldn't defeat more mobile Roman Maniples. Their only hope was to flank Romans and attack them from rear with cavalry, but Macedonian Cavalry at Pydna just routed and ran away...
View user's profile Send private message
Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the issues about pike fighting for me was how to create the impenetrable hedge.
It is an option to have each rank armed with a pike hold the pike in a different grip on its length in order to align as many points of different ranks as possible at one focal distance. Taking such an approach some pike points will be powerful pushers from the rearmost ranks that hold the butt end at the hip, while others in the front rank hold the pike at balance point and are better at fencing for the gaps.
Discussing pike performance needs to take into account the grip due to the tactical use.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,195

PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
One of the issues about pike fighting for me was how to create the impenetrable hedge.
It is an option to have each rank armed with a pike hold the pike in a different grip on its length in order to align as many points of different ranks as possible at one focal distance.


Huh, I've never seen any historical account or depiction that showed anything like that. The shafts are all held at about the same point regardless of rank, so that the first rank of point sticks out farther than the second rank, etc. This is a darn good system, because it means that anyone who gets past the first rank of points still has several more ranks to penetrate, probably while the shafts of the front rank are bouncing off his head. It's a layered defense. If all the points are in one "rank", and someone gets past them, he's going to be harder to stop.

Plus, if all the pikes are the same length (which as far as I know, they typically were), the front rank troops would have to be holding the shaft forward of the midpoint, not only making them impossible to balance, but also tangling much worse with the men farther back.

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Pike vs Spear
Page 3 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2017 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum