[Baard H]

I doesn't have any personal experience in this, but I noticed last winter at a training weekend here in Norway (appropriately named "Vinter") that in -15/-20 or so celsius, that the sweat from at least one of the other fighters head seeped down and made an icicle below the spectacles of his Gjermundbu helmet. If something similar could happen in full plate armour (not necessarily from sweat) the joints might freeze together? Maybe not on the march or while fighting, but what about during the night?

Just my two cents, crowns, nickles, dimes or whatever suits your local currency.

[Randall Moffett]

Kel,

That makes sense but if this was always the case armour would never have been used and the account seems to be a generalization as to why this was done.

Besides the fact the guys in full plate armour would likely have horses..... I can see it more for the commoners but still sort of have doubts about generalizations of armour abandonment. These guys were for the weight in likely lighter or more substantial armours than the gents in padding as to get close to metals quality of protection you need far more layers and weight. It of course happens but how common. I also figure where you are and what your objective was would also impact your equipment and what you felt more likely to ditch or keep. But 16th century infantry breastplates could weight 2-3 times a 15th century one so I am not sure how likely that would be to have happen.


Baard,

That is crazy cold no doubt. We get into the single digits F here fairly often at times have gotten past -10 but that is still cold. That said what you are talking about is largely the persons breath freezing I'd assume as far more moisture is coming out there. Have seen that happen to scarves... That said not sure England ever got that cold in the Medieval Period. I looked at N. England ave temps and they largely are around the 30s at the normal temps at cold times (1-2c) and at times -1's. I did find one place with -21 at the coldest but it was back over 50 years ago so pretty uncommon. Even if we assume a 5 degree change in temp it seems unlikely they were dealing with colds that would adversely affect them and armour anymore than normal.

Simon,

True but not really a big issue until well into the negative degrees f.


RPM

[Simon G. Bourdin]

Well, I don't want to be pushy, but there was the Little Ice Age going on at the time, so temperatures would get extremely lower than they get now in winter.

[Mark Griffin]

A winter in the late 15th cent would easily get -10 degrees, worse in exposed upland areas. Don't forget the Thames froze regularly and fairs held on it, and that's a large reasonably free flowing river.

In more remote and hilly areas it will get worse but don't forget there tended to be a campaign season to account for this. Wakefield and Towton fall outside the norm I'd say. On the other hand The Arrival mentions lack of water was a problem during the Tewkesbury campaign.

Armour that is well maintained should not be Affected by any weather in N Europe. But if you are it wearing he right stuff underneath it will scald in the summer and help suck your body heat out as the weather gets colder. I've worn harness in all temperatures in the UK and it certainly can be uncomfortable if the weather catches you out.

[Kel Rekuta]

@ Randall - my comparison was with common infantry - medieval, Elizabethan and modern. None of these three examples were mounted infantry nor any type of upper ranks. The point stands that infantry will wear as light a kit as practicable and still be able to serve.

In the case of English archers, the thickly padded doublet did the trick to their comfort and so was chosen by them. The Elizabethan infantry ( please don't make me look it up -1590's) ditched their "proof" breasts and backs for mobility and endurance in unforgiving terrain. IMHO, its not an unusual phenomenon in the military historical record. I really don't think its about metal fatigue or joints freezing or whatever. The reality of wearing and maintaining iron armour in all weather when CQ melee fighting is not your primary duty strikes me as the most logical reason the archers preferred a dense quilted garment.

[Randall Moffett]

Kel,

That makes sense. Especially in harsh terrain. We see similar things happening in various periods.

"The point stands that infantry will wear as light a kit as practicable and still be able to serve."

But this is the point to me as this is completely relative to the person and threat they are under.

RPM