[Ralph Grinly]

Well..going on the pics ORIGINALLY posted it sure *looks* like the same sword..but the lighting and angles are different so it's not 100 % guaranteed.

I guess the conclusive answer would be to contact the two museums and enquire if the Paris one is out on loan to the Ontario museum ? Museums DO exchange exhibits/items from time to time ? The other alternative is for some members in the relevant countries to go and LOOK ? If they say that , yes..that sword is there, on display AT THIS Time - then obviously they are two separate swords

[Robin Smith]

I can't believe this is even open for debate. These are clearly and unambiguously the same sword.

Pictures can often show significantly more difference than we see here, depending on angle and lighting. There is no doubt that this is a single sword...

[Peter Johnsson]

There is no doubt whatsoever that this is the same sword we see in the two photographs.

The sword in question is so unique in design and of such an unusual quality that it is very unlikely that there were ever two such swords made that were identical to each other. This is a good example of the rare situation when we have a sword that was made as a one off item and not as a sword in a series or group, that would otherwise have been the norm. Swords that belong to the same group tend to share the same proportions and have similar type of hilt furniture, but not *identical* hilt furniture. There will normally be variances within a family of swords even if its members are pretty much alike. It is a very rare thing to have swords surviving to our time, that are actually from the same workshop and that are made to be like siblings.

If you have ever seen this sword with your own eyes it becomes apparent that it is a weapon of outstanding quality with several unique features. The fact that both the original grip and the gilding of pommel and guard survives is unusual enough. The proportion and form of the blade is also unique. It is very broad and has an extremely well shaped fuller with an inscription. In the pommel there is an insert under a domed disc of rock crystal. That one feature is in itself so unique that it is completely unrealistic to think that two swords would exist that shared these features.

If, for argument sake, two swords did exist that were like true twins, they would show greater differences in state of preservation and in damages to surface and outline. The small details that have been discussed here are on such a small scale that it is clear it is more a matter of how you interpret and compare smudges on different photographs rather than any features of the sword in question.

Even among swords that do belong to the same group you will find unmistakeable differences between them (even between swords that are *very* similar is shape and size).
This will be evident if you place them side by side or compare photographs of them.
It should also be understood that such a degree of similarity between two swords is a pretty rare thing.
I really only know of one good example where there are the two very similar swords from the Castillion find that are obviously made by the same maker. One of these swords resides in the Royal Armouries in Leeds and the other is displayed in the Army museum in Paris.
(I am sorry, but I cannot post images of these two swords at this time)

In regards of the sword in question on this thread, Oakeshott quotes in his "Records" the theory of M. Charles Buttin that because of the inscription in the blade the sword would have been made for one of the French kings.
"NULLA DU VIRTUTIBUS TUIS MAJOR CLEMNTA EST" ("Nothing of your virtues is greater than your clemency")
The argument being that only a King could truly exercise clemency, and therefore the sword would have belonged to one of the French monarchs of the first half of the 14th century.

If this is true, it makes it very unrealistic that there were ever two swords like this made to be so alike that they can be mistaken for each other.
How many kings does France have at any given time? Would a King want another person to have a sword that is the spitting image of his own prestige weapon?
I find the suggestion that the possibility of this sword having a twin to be strange in the extreme.

This sword belongs in the collection of the Army Mueum of Paris. It is one of its most priced possessions among medieval arms and armour. It may have been on loan to another museum at some time, but if that is the case it would have been a very special occasion for a very special exhibition indeed.
When the National Museum of Medieval Art (the Cluny museum) in Paris had a rare special exhibition on the medieval sword the other year, this sword was not on loan as it was deemed to be too risky to transfer it from its current location to the Cluny museum that is situated just a few blocks away.

[Boris Bedrosov]

This previous post could be the final conclusion in this poll - it's so well balanced and backed with arguments.
I personally think there is no need for additional discussion.

Thanks a lot, Mr. Johnsson

[Matt Corbin]

I think this poll is pretty much done. They're clearly the same sword as so artfully articulated by Peter Johnsson.

That being said, I found a few more photos of this sword from the Musée de l'Armée and thought I'd post them. These are the small size. Full size photos can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98015679@N04/sets/72157634746853426/

[Matt Corbin]

And also a close up of the description:

[Mark Griffin]

Can I just add a big thanks for the work done on finding all the pictures and collating them on here. Its a great sword and its really good to be able to have such a fine collection of images of it all together.

[Boris Bedrosov]

[Julien M]

[Julien M]

There you go Boris.

Sword

French made, around 1350, traditionally thought to be of royal origin.
Found in a grave south of France, 19th century.
Hilted in the common cruciform pattern.
It's broad and stout blade, with pronounced lateral edges, makes the sword particularly suited for cutting blows. It is lightened by a central fuller, that bears the following Chivalric inscription in brass gilded letters:
NULLA DE VIRTUTIBUS TUIS MAJOR CLEMENTIA EST (clemency shall be your highest virtue).

A recess a the center of the circular pommel contains a crystal capsule for the likely purpose of enclosing relics (?)
The grip wrapped with wooden thin slats was originally protected by a fine wire wrap.
Pommel and guard are covered with a silver gilded sheet.

[Victor R.]

Perchance this will be Albion's next "Museum Line" offering....

I can hear my bank account draining already!

[Boris Bedrosov]

Thanks, Julien!

Really magnificent sword.
And although I've always had mixed opinion for the Type XIV (mostly due to their cumbersome outlook), this particular sword is one of the finest examples I've ever seen.
I wish I would be able to see it someday "alive" - in the Musee de l'Armee, not just on pictures.

[Chad Arnow]

For what it's worth, I just received an email from someone at the Royal Ontario Museum stating that this sword is not in their collection.

[Robin Smith]

[Shahril Dzulkifli]

I must say that the swords look identical.