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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,968

PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Morgan Butler wrote:
I do have other military swords with gilt hilts and silver wire grips that are certainly germain to each other....Here is a pic of the tang.


What makes it a gilt hilt? Do you mean just yellow? A number I have encountered are indeed re-wraps. I am certainly taking into account both Prussian and British contrasting hilts but I don't think this one was commissioned to meet any trend or regulation.

This one doesn't necessarily look like a re-wrapped grip by itself, with a nicely done cross section but the lack of turks or matching ferrules does show a bit of a mismatch in "flow" of the piece. Both ends of the wire end poorly (imo). Again, my thoughts in a preceding post kind of sum up my take and I guess kind of damned if I do or don't get involved. My vote is composite and not British. The timeline of the construction rather ambiguous but it could be a quite modern match up of components.

Cheers

GC
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Norman McCormick





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Morgan,
Is it possible to post a photo of the area under the 'velvet'?
My Regards,
Norman.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Norman,
As I stated in my earlier posting, it hasn't arrived yet, when it does I'll try to get a pic with my rather poor cell phone camera. What are you looking for specifically under the velvet washer? I too rather suspect the grip is a later add on....

inkothemgard!
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Norman McCormick





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Morgan Butler wrote:
Hello Norman,
As I stated in my earlier posting, it hasn't arrived yet, when it does I'll try to get a pic with my rather poor cell phone camera. What are you looking for specifically under the velvet washer? I too rather suspect the grip is a later add on....



Hi Morgan,
Just to see if there has been any modification of the guard to fit the blade. If it is a composite, as has been suggested, there may be telltale signs of recent or old interference.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. I'd forgotten you did not have it in hand, my apologies.
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Mon 05 Aug, 2013 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No apologies necessary Norman. It should arrive any day now. Maybe today in fact!
inkothemgard!
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Morgan Butler




PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So the sword arrived. Yes, yes, it is a composite. The brass guard and pommel (which is what I liked best) was really cool!, but the rest sucked. I don't think the blade is 18th century either. The good news is the seller is taking it back and giving a full refund. So I had a good discussion on M.A, learned a few things and had the whole buyer experience for just the cost of shipping. Not a bad gamble. What if it had been awesome? May we all be as fortunate. Happy

Norman:
Yes, it was definitely a military guard and pommel. About the same ratio as my and your british sgt's swords. About 1/4th larger than my French Epee du Soldat. That's the part I regret. I really like the guard and pommel. With the forward and rear quillon, pas de ans and little shells between the shell guards, itt actually reminds me of some Russian Infantry Officer swords that I have seen before. If I was more well to do I might keep the guard and make a composite of my own with period parts. But I don't make enough to indulge myself that way. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Martin;
It handles nowhere near as nicely as a good frying pan.

Glen: Yup.

inkothemgard!
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Norman McCormick





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 125

PostPosted: Fri 09 Aug, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Morgan,
A disappointment but at least not an expensive one. Photographs can be very misleading and we always hope for the best but it doesn't always work. Being in the U.K. can be an advantage in that travelling for a personal inspection doesn't tend to involve the mileage that you encounter in the U.S. I have in fact given up buying from photos and only purchase after personal inspection, it means I miss out on some but on the other hand I miss the "lemons" as well. There was a few of things I was worried about re your sword e.g. the file marks on the guard and the tip geometry but as you know careless previous owners can be, well, careless and sometimes that's all it is. Once again glad you didn't get badly burnt.
Kind Regards,
Norman.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,968

PostPosted: Fri 09 Aug, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have done ok with gut feeling and educated hunches but little tell tales are often right there in the photos. Some I stare at for weeks and even months, which isn't always possible. What I do accomplish though is saving a whole lot of images. I do it not only for my own particular interests but also to learn what goes together and sometimes what has been put together, even if neat and interesting.

An instance for this piece is the blade bumper. Neatly (not really) trimmed with scissors and not punched out with a die. The bumper itself much newer than the overall patina of the piece. Then the picture of the pommel with the capstan ground down to accommodate a fresh peen. Those aside from my previous thoughts on the grip and overall.

I generally play pretty safe and even so on a current looker that has enough clues to make me think twice at the price. Even knowing the sword itself is 100%, it is just not so clearly described as to condition. Great sword at a decent price but I haven't jumped yet after two months. Twitch, honest, I can quit any time. Twitch. I wonder if it has sold yet (I only look two or three times a day). Oh ya, right. I am on probation from buying any swords this year (for now). I did buy an old knife recently though but knew exactly what it was and what to expect.

It is tough online to ask before buying but I have friends that have come to my rescue more than once by my simply asking their opinion off the boards. This can be tiresome when I am the one being asked but only those that come back repeatedly with the same ignorances without the urge to learn. I have never thought that the case with you Morgan and I would say don't be afraid to reach out (not just to me, please, what do I know anyway).

It can as well go the other way at times Morgan. I am remembering a hanger you sent back at one point, even though a couple of us thought it just fine. Better safe than sorry.

Cheers

GC
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,968

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a Swedish example of what the sword in topic describes. Broad blade and donkey hoof hilt.

A beautiful example that went for a relative song. Sold by Stephan Joan on Ebay just last night. Great guy. Antiquefirearms.com

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-18th-CENTURY-SWE...093315257?

I'll get around to saving the picture set but it is a busy day. I hope someone in the extended sword community forums can share a hands on for this one. It is a pretty neat piece.

Cheers

GC



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