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Tom King
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 Posted: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Robert B. Marks wrote: | | That may be true, but I do think it is worth pointing out that there is a considerable difference between sticking somebody with a rapier and knocking the top half of their head off with a longsword... |
but what about when you cut through a mans clavicle with your longsword and he slides his rondel between your ribs?
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of how the afterblow is implemented, the terminal effects of swords cannot be rendered at all in a training environment. You can't know if your cut has really been effective (as far as I gather it's real easy to mess up a cut). Your thrust does not enter the body and so the distance cannot be closed in the same way. Your blade cannot get stuck. Your buried blade does not impede the motions of your opponent. And so on and so forth...
Just looking at rapier texts we see thrusts that enter one or two feet of blade into the opponent, some that advise running him through up to the hilt. You can't do this with a training blade, the bend account for 4 inches maybe. This distorts the fight, distorts the afterblow, but then if you do no afterblow it distorts the fight too... So yeah, compromise 
Regards,
--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Guy Bayes
Location: United States Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Tue 30 Jul, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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The other part of it is, there is not really a lot of downside in assuming an after blow is possible and protecting yourself from it, even though it may be very unlikely.
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Robert B. Marks
Location: Kingston, Ont. Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Fri 02 Aug, 2013 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Tom King wrote: | | Robert B. Marks wrote: | | That may be true, but I do think it is worth pointing out that there is a considerable difference between sticking somebody with a rapier and knocking the top half of their head off with a longsword... |
but what about when you cut through a mans clavicle with your longsword and he slides his rondel between your ribs? |
Well, then the lawyers get to sort it out... :-)
"Sir, our duelist clearly won the fight, as he flopped around for a good ten seconds after the other guy stopped moving..."
Best regards to all,
Robert Marks
Robert Marks
Darksword Armory, Inc.
www.darksword-armory.com
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Sat 10 Aug, 2013 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Another fact worth noting is that while double/simultaneous hits were commonly (and rightly) disparaged in European swordsmanship throughout the ages, they were as common as heck in real duels and swordfights. Otherwise, I guess, the masters wouldn't have had to caution their student-fencers so sternly against them. So while the sportification of fencing has led to an unfortunate development in the increasing acceptance of double kills as long as the winning fencer scores a fraction of a second before the other, well . . . maybe we need to sit back, take a closer look, and remember that it wasn't all that unusual for both parties in a swordfight or duel to walk away with injuries, often inflicted (near-)simultaneously against each other.
That is, when they had swordfights at all....
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