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Tim Lison
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 Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Leo Todeschini wrote: | It also had a strange effect on me in that when looking at the sword from a few paces away it looks really quite small, definitely elegant, but small.
Tod |
I feel the same way. It's really odd. I think it is the pomel that does it. The pommel looks small but because of it's almost spherical shape it has more mass than you think. Weird that we had the same impression...
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Tim Lison
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| Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Just measured it. OAL is 38.75 inches, BL is 33.5 inches. POB is 6.5 inches from guard. I'm including a few more photos to give some perspective. I took a shot of the pommel from the side to show its shape better. I took one "in hand" because those always look good. I took another with my only other 12th century sword because its nice to see more than one sword and because you can really make out the recurve or "gull wing" shape of the guard...
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Ian Hutchison
Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 625
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| Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim Lison wrote: | | I took one "in hand" because those always look good. |
Right you are, it looks really excellent in the hand. The proportions are great.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Peter,
Thank you for the additional information on the grip and scabbard. Your creative hypothesis on the belt attachment is an interesting one, and gives the ensemble a unique look. The ferrules and wire wrap on the grip aren't commonly seen on swords of this period. The treatment gives the sword and entirely different look than it would have otherwise, very nice.
Tim,
Thanks for the in-hand photos, they give one a good sense of the swords proportions. Overall, a very sleek looking piece.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Scott Woodruff
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| Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice sword Tim, congratulations. I have long wanted to see one of these 12th C swords with the almost spherical Geibig type 14 pommels recreated, so to see one done by Peter is a special treat indeed.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 04 Jul, 2013 3:30 am Post subject: |
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The pommel looks like it is very comfortable as it supports the heel of the palm: The pic of it from the side really helps in understanding the subtle shape.
Lovely sword.  
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Thu 04 Jul, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: |
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That's superb Tim,
Here's a hearty congratulations on such a monumental piece. A truly beautiful weapon indeed.
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Marc Ridgeway
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| Posted: Thu 04 Jul, 2013 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Congratulations.
It would be a realization of a dream to caretake a PJ creation. Many generations will enjoy this heirloom. I bet it feels unreal ... do you keep pinching yourself?
I love the clean look of the pommel . silver wire and bands hilt arrangement,
Well done.
Marc Kaden Ridgeway
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Tim Lison
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| Posted: Thu 04 Jul, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | The pommel looks like it is very comfortable as it supports the heel of the palm |
This is actually the most comfortable to wield sword I have because of the pommel shape. The bottom curve means nothing pokes the hand and the spherical shape keeps it firmly locked in place. Makes me wonder why this pommel wasn't more common.
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Bruno Giordan
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| Posted: Thu 04 Jul, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: | The grip is wrapped with half round silver wire (hammered to shape in a simple little anvil specially made for the purpose).
The wire wrap is indeed inspired by a sword in the army museum of Paris, just like Tim mentioned. This was a first for me, but I think it turned out nicely. It makes for an unusual look for the hilt as we normally see leather covered grips on these kinds of swords. In art there may be suggestions of other kind of wrapping having been in use more commonly than we see in the surviving material. So based on those few examples of alternative hilt wrappings and depictions in art there is a little field for careful creativity left open.
The silver wire is bound down edge to edge. What looks like gaps between the turns are shadows and the effect of a slight patination with liver of sulphur. This is to give a little bit of color and contrast to the otherwise unadorned and bright hilt. |
Is the wire wrap laying directly over wood, or does it have some intermediate layer?
Congratulations for your new masterwork, btw
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Robert Môc
Industry Professional
Location: Zvolen Slovakia Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri 05 Jul, 2013 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Nice sword Tim,Peter is a true master.
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Fri 05 Jul, 2013 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: | The scabbard is an attempt to make a mid 12th century style. Looking at art from the period we do not see the iconic integral laced belt of the 13th and early 14th century of the kid we are used to. Instead there are some enigmatic depictions of thongs in a basket weave in the upper quarter or third of the scabbard. It also seems like the slashes in the scabbard cover is still includes a central cut, like a remnant of the scabbard slide of previous centuries. This was what I came up with to combine those features depicted in art. A prequel to the laced belt of the later periods.
Below are a few examples of depictions of swords with this kind of suspension.
Any questions and comments are welcome.
-Thanks! |
Beautiful work, sir.
The 12th century is a difficult period to document. Here is a simplified example from the 13th century Trinity Apocalypse, Cambridge MS R.16.2 folio 23v, which may give some interesting clues. (I've rotated it for ease.) It seems the belt is simply placed under the criss-cross lacing. Some of the same manuscript's miniatures simply show the belt disappearing behind the sheath. I suppose it would allow a good deal of flexibility to the owner: the belt could be over or under the sheath; and depending upon the placement through mutiple Xs, one could have the sword straight or at varying cants, higher or lower.
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ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Fri 05 Jul, 2013 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mart Shearer wrote: | | Peter Johnsson wrote: | The scabbard is an attempt to make a mid 12th century style. Looking at art from the period we do not see the iconic integral laced belt of the 13th and early 14th century of the kid we are used to. Instead there are some enigmatic depictions of thongs in a basket weave in the upper quarter or third of the scabbard. It also seems like the slashes in the scabbard cover is still includes a central cut, like a remnant of the scabbard slide of previous centuries. This was what I came up with to combine those features depicted in art. A prequel to the laced belt of the later periods.
Below are a few examples of depictions of swords with this kind of suspension.
Any questions and comments are welcome.
-Thanks! |
Beautiful work, sir.
The 12th century is a difficult period to document. Here is a simplified example from the 13th century Trinity Apocalypse, Cambridge MS R.16.2 folio 23v, which may give some interesting clues. (I've rotated it for ease.) It seems the belt is simply placed under the criss-cross lacing. Some of the same manuscript's miniatures simply show the belt disappearing behind the sheath. I suppose it would allow a good deal of flexibility to the owner: the belt could be over or under the sheath; and depending upon the placement through mutiple Xs, one could have the sword straight or at varying cants, higher or lower. |
(Sorry for the sidetrack Tim)
I will have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Johnsson when he says "Looking at art from the period we do not see the iconic integral laced belt of the 13th and early 14th century of the kid we are used to". I think there are a number of illustrations that very well could be the typical integral lacing we are used to, or atleast something not far off from it. For example
From the Bayeux Tap
M/S Lat 8846 fol62 (12th C.)
There are many others from the period that may be similar to the other common lacing style that forms a Z rather than an X (as on the lacing of the St. Maurice (Turin) scabbard)
As always, using illustrations in this manner is open to interpretation. However, I do think that there are enough illustrations from the 11th-12th C that could be interpreted to be the lacing styles that we know from surviving later scabbards.
That is not saying that I think these are the only styles, obviously there are other lacing styles as in the illustrations Mr. Johnsson linked to. I just don't think it is correct to say that we don't see any evidence from the 11th-12th C for the integral lacing we are all used to.
Also, it's worth noting that there is atleast one early 12th C surviving scabbard leathers from York that show piercing along the top that would be consistent with some form of integral lacing. While we don't know how it was laced, it does look quite similar to the piercing found along the "iconic" suspension system we are all used to.
That said, I really do like what you did with the scabbard for this project. Variety is important, and while I find myself defending the typical integral lacing in this post, overall I believe it is overrepresented. It is good to see a different method used.
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 05 Jul, 2013 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Robin, thanks!
Those were some really good and clear examples. Very happy that you posted those.
Having a good reference material for scabbards is really important. It is easier now, with good things available on the net, but it is still time consuming to get hold of a good variety spanning different identified areas and time periods.
Good stuff :-)
The lacing of the Saint Maurice in Torino is a good example of a lacing that looks fairly normal when seen from the front. The back side is a bit surprising. I do not think the back side has been published. I was at least surprised when I got to see it. The thong that is used for the lacing is actually a separate length of leather, while both the belts are of a different kind of leather and each separate from the lacing thong itself.
I will make use of the data I got from that session of documentation for a sword sometime and at that time show my drawings of the original with an analysis of how the lacing was done.
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J.D. Crawford
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| Posted: Sun 07 Jul, 2013 8:44 am Post subject: |
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What an elegant and beautiful sword! Congratulations Tim and Peter.
I agree that when the eye wanders toward the hilt it looks smaller, but there's a lot of blade there. Yet somehow it balances out. I particularly like the pommel which reminds me of a sword in Paris, perhaps the one already mentioned.
I had to pass on one of Peter's swords earlier this year because of current financial constraints - feeling the pain now.
Regards, JD
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Sun 07 Jul, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: Peter Johnsson custom sword |
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What a nice sword! But I think this one is perhaps suitable for reenactments. 
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 07 Jul, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Peter Johnsson custom sword |
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| Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: | 
What a nice sword! But I think this one is perhaps suitable for reenactments. |
Thanks!
This sword could surely serve someone who is into reenactment of the 12th century.
Is this a problem?
:-)
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D. S. Smith
Location: Central CA Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Mon 08 Jul, 2013 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Incredible work as always Peter! And a heart-felt congratulations to you Tim. What a nice sword and scabbard combination from a period that really interests me.
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