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William Swiger
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 Posted: Tue 21 May, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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The stats paint a pretty grim picture of how it will handle and cut. Would make an expensive display sword. Guess if you just wanted to swing it around and something Excalibur looking for a costume item, it would be alright.
I sort of look at most of the Conan sword reproductions in the same way.
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Tod Glenn
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| Posted: Wed 22 May, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a DSA Gothic after reading reviews on Sword Buyers Guide. Mine shipped with scabbard and belt, though I did not order those. Fit and finish were not bad and the temper was uniform over the length of the blade at least along the edge. I put an appleseed edge on it and it has held up well for light cutting.
I was very dissapointed by the balance on this sword. It feels a bit club-like. It's too point heavy and the grip is too short. The taper is adequate, but somewhat uneven. This could be an artifact of the forging process that was not corrected in final finishing. The blade is buffed, which I don't care for.
It's worth noting this is a $330 sword. Compared to a $250 Tinker longsword, you get a lot more finishing touches. However with a few minimal changes it could have been a pretty decent sword. I know some have had very bad experiences, but when I bought mine about 3 years ago, my own experience was fairly pleasant.
Having handled several of their swords, as well as a large number of swords in the same price range, I would rate this sword as above average in fit and finish. Any HEMA practitioner will hate this sword as being unweildy. It seems more like a functional display piece than any thing else.
The makers at DSA could benefit by taking some HEMA instruction so they know what a sword should handle like. There more to making a good sword than duplicating a look. Knowing how a sword should handle makes a big difference.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Wed 22 May, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan Heff wrote: | | Lance - Any chance you could post some pictures? I too think the Excalibur looks pretty good from Darksword. I have no first hand experience with any of their swords and would be interested in seeing some additional pictures of that model. |
Not only does it not look good to me, the design looks to be yet another example of a borrowed design from another manufacturer. It's worth mentioning that I don't care for the design from the other maker, either. It's just plain ugly to my eyes—almost as ugly as the act of taking designs from others and presenting them as one's own.
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Tom King
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| Posted: Wed 22 May, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tod Glenn wrote: | | Fit and finish were not bad and the temper was uniform over the length of the blade at least along the edge. |
it really is a crapshoot as to quality. personally I went through two swords before returning it for a BKS. one had the pommel canted about 15* from true and the tip bent after the fuller by about 1* while the other one was physically ok, but when used as a wma weapon was horribly chewed up by completely rebated hanwie practicals (i had contacted eyal about their use as wma weapons and was assured they would work, this is was KOA thankfully let me return it and upgrade to my bks) There is a crapton of them floating around with major tempering issues from about a year or two ago- I wouldn't trust KOAs backstock or even darksword without getting assured that they were new production or rockwell tested (with a return guarantee for defective merch)
| Tod Glenn wrote: | | It's worth noting this is a $330 sword. Compared to a $250 Tinker longsword, you get a lot more finishing touches. |
Have to disagree with you there; my tinker longsword was leaps and bounds over the darkswords I've seen (in balance, fit, finish, etc.) It is obviously more utilitarian than some of thier fancier offerings, but a plane jane DSA looks cobbier than a tinker; and I purchased mine back when I could get 2 for $200 and they were priced at 160ish. at those prices there was no competition, and even at the current inflated prices a tinker would be higher on my shopping list than another DSA.
| Tod Glenn wrote: | | I would rate this sword as above average in fit and finish. |
I've found most of them to be sub windlass in fit and finish, but there are a few jems. my friend has their brass hilted gothic swords which is well balanced, handsome, and well finished (while suffering from the tempering problem- sub windlass in hardness) My first however was unacceptable and the second (thanks to lots of poorly executed geometric facets on hilt and guard) looked.... cobby but acceptable. The grips coming unglued in your hand is another problem with the dsa's I've held and used; since they don't sew the grip and use wetted leather the cord wrapping is ill defined and even a bit of use will start to unglue the leather.
Some of their new stuff looks tempting, but with the problems I've had with their weapons checks my pocketbook.
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Greg Ballantyne
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| Posted: Wed 22 May, 2013 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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These posts mainly support my conclusions, there are better choices at this price point. Its a murky landscape at the $300 range, and DSA takes advantage of that fact....... look around, or decide to spend more - or no matter what you decide to spend, do your homework.......
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Edward Lee
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Sun 12 Apr, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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I am no fan of Darksword. My main reason for dislike is their claim that they forge their blades in-house, while much evidence points to the blades being created in China. Chinese blades are fine, I just don't care for false claims. This issue, in spite of much wrangling, has never been satisfactorily resolved.
However, if you look at new models over at KOA, you can see that DSA has upped their game as far as blade geometry goes. Many of these new models look like well-designed swords. But beware. Plenty of the old clunkers are still for sale - look at the specs carefully.
Last edited by Roger Hooper on Tue 14 Apr, 2015 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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William Swiger
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| Posted: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 12:54 am Post subject: |
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I tried one of their new models and it was not very good. I reviewed it on SBG. It is in the review index there under Longford Sword.
Non Timebo Mala
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| William Swiger wrote: | | I tried one of their new models and it was not very good. I reviewed it on SBG. It is in the review index there under Longford Sword. |
If you look on KOA, you will find 2 entries -
The artifact of the old one - http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DSA1542BRS
And the reworked new one - http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DSA1542BR
From your review, ti seems like the (Chinese?) blade is geometrically an improvement, except for the defect on the tang. The major problems are on the cutlery end of the process. Also, bad quality assurance..
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, from what I have heard, DSA has improved, they now offer "dual tempered" swords with a softer middle and harder edges. I found a review by shadowhowler that compares the new gothic to the old. http://www.unitedbackyardcutter.com/forum/vie...amp;t=2943 . I also found a second review that says the same. http://www.unitedbackyardcutter.com/forum/vie...amp;t=3225 DSA has stepped up under the pressure from the sword community. While I do not own a darksword armoury sword, I wouldn't be against buying one now that they are getting better. Just my thoughts.
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William M
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Their newer swords such as the wolf bane and einar look quite nice and the quality has taken a step up, but the so has the price and those two in particular are imo not worth the price as I couldn't imagine paying around $800 USD for a darksword.
In addition to the lack of value of these increased quality pieces, I personally wouldn't ever buy a darksword due to my distaste of their business practices.
Stealing sword designs from films and albion along with their very shadowy blade procurement and attempts to pull the wool over peoples eyes with fake "this is our workshop" videos is too much for me.
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| William M wrote: |
Stealing sword designs from films and albion along with their very shadowy blade procurement and attempts to pull the wool over peoples eyes with fake "this is our workshop" videos is too much for me. |
You mean this video? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJlwlqL9wnc .
While Darksword admits that they are "inspired" and "based" on LOTR designs, they have taken preexisting designs. I don't know if they had permission to use these designs or not, but I doubt they did. As for the price, swords (such as Albion) that are manufactured in north America tend to cost more, as it costs less for deepika and windlass to make swords in india.
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | I am no fan of Darksword. My main reason for dislike is their claim that they forge their blades in-house, while much evidence points to the blades being created in China. Chinese blades are fine, I just don't care for false claims. This issue, in spite of much wrangling, has never been satisfactorily resolved. |
China? They do claim to forge their swords in Canada, and even ship the swords with large "made in Canada" stickers. If this is true, they would of been intentionally misleading everyone, especially with the "day in the life of Darksword" video. Many say they make their sword fittings in China, and I wonder if this could be true, as they do offer the fittings themselves. I hope the owner or some representative can comment on this thread and clear up all the mystery, and possibly come clean. I am waiting to see the conclusion of this issue, gosh darn it I want to know!
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Benjamin Teurman wrote: |
China? They do claim to forge their swords in Canada, and even ship the swords with large "made in Canada" stickers. If this is true, they would of been intentionally misleading everyone, especially with the "day in the life of Darksword" video. Many say they make their sword fittings in China, and I wonder if this could be true, as they do offer the fittings themselves. I hope the owner or some representative can comment on this thread and clear up all the mystery, and possibly come clean. I am waiting to see the conclusion of this issue, gosh darn it I want to know! |
Go over to the Sword Buyers Guide forum, where you can find it discussed at great length (though not recently)
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
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If you don't care to look it up yourself, the China thing in short:
Various experienced forumites have examined Darksword products for themselves (we are talking about people that have personally handled many hundreds, if not thousands, of swords). Numerous indicators such as manufacturing quality and the low cost suggest strongly that they are not making the blades in-house. There was one incident where a forumite found Chinese characters sharpie'd on the tang of a feder; Darksword claimed (with some plausibility) that they were assembly marks or some such (can't recall right now).
Really the biggest thing is the cost. $300-plus may seem like a reasonable price, but for Canadian minimum wage, operating costs and other overhead... it really does not add up at all unless they came across an incredibly revolutionary way of making swords quickly for cheap, and that's less likely than assuming they're sourcing their blades from somewhere where they pay people a LOT less.
Second biggest (perhaps the biggest for most people) issue is that their representation has not been the best in trying to resolve questions. Some answers have never been given. The swords are certainly assembled in Canada... but assembly is only a small portion of the whole job. A few videos have come out, but they're incredibly vague. Once they showed a 'heat treat' forge that would have done for a knife, but certainly not a sword.
It's a bit of a ghastly business. I haven't kept up with SBG for a couple years or so now, but that was where it was at the last time I looked around.
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jeffrey Faulk wrote: | If you don't care to look it up yourself, the China thing in short:
Various experienced forumites have examined Darksword products for themselves (we are talking about people that have personally handled many hundreds, if not thousands, of swords). Numerous indicators such as manufacturing quality and the low cost suggest strongly that they are not making the blades in-house. There was one incident where a forumite found Chinese characters sharpie'd on the tang of a feder; Darksword claimed (with some plausibility) that they were assembly marks or some such (can't recall right now). |
I remember this issue. Darksword responded saying that the smith who had crafted the blade had marked it with a sharpee. They claimed the smith had very sloppy handwriting that looked like Chinese. From what I remember, some weren't satisfied with the answer (including me)
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William M
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Ben
in Teurman wrote: | | William M wrote: |
Stealing sword designs from films and albion along with their very shadowy blade procurement and attempts to pull the wool over peoples eyes with fake "this is our workshop" videos is too much for me. |
You mean this video? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJlwlqL9wnc .
While Darksword admits that they are "inspired" and "based" on LOTR designs, they have taken preexisting designs. I don't know if they had permission to use these designs or not, but I doubt they did. As for the price, swords (such as Albion) that are manufactured in north America tend to cost more, as it costs less for deepika and windlass to make swords in india. |
No way DSA have been given any permission to use the designs. Swords like sting are entirely the creation of weta and are not general pre existing designs.
For example; https://darksword-armory.com/product/sting-sword-1311/
With regards to their day in the life videos, many knowledgeable people noted that what was shown could no way churn out the quantity of swords they claim they produce. Personally I think they are trying to fool us all and know they have dug themselves into a hole too deep they will never admit the Truth.
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I reviewed the "Day in the life" video, I watched it a few times. Immediately, it became apparent that what is shown (this could be just a tiny portion of a larger shop, it could be bigger) that the size of the forge and forging area (shown at 1:08 into the video) is too small to make anything larger than the dagger the guy is making (At least, I assume its a knife, its a tiny piece of steel) with a forge this small, I don't think you could make more than a singe sword a day (at least by hand forging, which they state they do) At 1:32 the same guy is now holding a whole sword, and another is helping forge the tip. At 1:53, you see a wall full of swords, in boxes and wrapped up, nothing bad here, but it looks like a much larger scale, how are they making all those swords on one anvil, with only belt sanders in sight. (Again, I am just making wild assumptions based on this video.) Sigh. I want to believe darksword here, I want to believe they are truthful on their claims, but there is not much going for them anymore. I want to stay away from just making up stuff and bashing their business practices and insulting them, this really hurt them back in 2003.
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Edward Lee
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I remember this issue. Darksword responded saying that the smith who had crafted the blade had marked it with a sharpee. They claimed the smith had very sloppy handwriting that looked like Chinese. From what I remember, some weren't satisfied with the answer (including me) |
That must be some very complicated handwriting. Anyone got a picture of that character on the tang?
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Benjamin Teurman
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| Posted: Tue 14 Apr, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Edward Lee"] | Quote: |
That must be some very complicated handwriting. Anyone got a picture of that character on the tang? |
I actually found the original thread and the video, on sfi here https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/39495/ looks like there was just a single mark, but still looks Japanese. DSA gave a very professional and believable explanation to this issue.
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This is a standard topic