[Jean Thibodeau]

[Christine Munro]

[Jason Elrod]

I'd lilke to point out that it is also the responsibility of the purchaser to convey their expectations about the sword purchase.

The discussion shouldn't just be about the details of the item to be received but how you, as the purchaser, would like to to treated. Do you expect or want monthly updates? Do you want pictures before the piece ships? Do you want pictures of the sword at various steps in the project? Do you want the sword done in a week, 2 months, 2 years etc.? If there is a delay, how would you want the producer to react? Do you care about delays? Do you want your money back if there are delays? Do you want to put money down?

What is important to you as the consumer?

Now the craftsman doesn't have to agree to everything that you want (maybe they don't have time or don't want to take pictures of the sword during the process) but at least you have asked. You and the craftsman can now make a more informed decision on whether you want to do business with each other and both of you can adjust your expectations about the transaction.

I think this is something that most purchasers are horrible at. I know that I am horrible at it. I find a sword that I want reproduced. I get super enthusiastic about it. I shoot a couple emails off, get the sword commissioned and then eagerly await its arrival. Then I realized, that I haven't discussed time frames. I haven't set delivery expectations. Oops! I looked at the sword images again and found out that I missed some details that I wanted reproduced so I shoot off another set of emails just to make sure that I'm clear. Now I have to adjust my expectations about an estimated delivery and sword price etc. . . and yet some how I still haven't conveyed my expectation on a time frame because I'm so caught up in getting the exact sword that I want.

Now in the above example, which by the way happened on my latest commission, I haven't had any discussion with the craftsman abut time frames so I shouldn't be upset if the commission takes 2 years and I expected a year. I shouldn't be upset about not getting bi-monthly updates, because I haven't set that expectation. If I get upset, then it would be my fault for not communicating effectively.

I haven't taken the time to build a business/transaction relationship. And In the end it is all about building a relationship.

While I don't want to dismiss poor communication and time delays by the producer, it is also the responsibility of the purchaser to communicate as best as possible what he or she wants and expects.

When ordering a custom sword, both the purchaser and producer need to be as clear as possible.

[Raymond Deancona]

As I did not want to name names in a bad experience, I am going to name names in a recent GREAT experience.

I cannot say enough good things about J E Sarge from crusadermonk.com. Last week I sent down an old Del Tin blade, with guard and pommel that needed a handle, and peening and general cleaning of the whole piece. The box arrived to him on Tuesday, and the finished piece is done and in the mail as of today.

The pictures of the finished piece are outstanding.

Mr. Sarge went above and beyond for the money spent. I will definitely be doing more business with him in the future. Highly recommended.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Jason Elrod]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Joe Fults]

Is a shame that people who are known to be outstanding in the business always seem to be the ones that end up getting upset over these threads. Its interesting that the people that either repeatedly muck up or have less stellar reputations always seem to just pass them by.

Millennials and social media are going to change some of this as they gain purchasing power. At this point even slow mainstream companies are scrambling like mad to educate management teams on what social and millennial means to market presence and even the ability to source and retain talent. Facebook may or may not compel towards the positive, as I'm inclined to agree forums tend to do, but things like Glassdoor, YouTube and Yelp are different beasts altogether that are strongly driven by customer experience!!! Vendors may not get smoked here or in the other forums but the ones that cannot master customer experience are going to get smoked sure enough.

[Jerad P]

It really makes me sad that my first, and potentially last, post here is in this thread.

I’ll start by saying I’m not a kid and nearing middle age, but I am brand new to the entire sword-buying experience. A few years ago I really started getting into the Renaissance Festival scene and began putting together what I think is a pretty nice warrior outfit on which I’ve spent just under $2000. But to complete it, well...a warrior needs a weapon, right? And I do not want some cheap piece hanging from the side of an outfit of which I am very proud and spent a fair amount of money assembling.

So late last year I began the meticulous process of researching what makes a ‘good sword’, and what manufacturers make the best swords. I was fortunate to come across this site and the forums, and have learned a wealth of information here. By the time I had narrowed down my choices and made a decision to commit money to purchase a high quality sword, it was already mid-April, and the Renaissance Festival I go to begins this weekend and ends the last weekend in September. I knew from my research that I had perhaps waited too long since 4 months to get a new sword could potentially be unrealistic.

Nevertheless, I decided to try. My goal, stated upfront to the two manufacturers I contacted, was that I was hoping to get the sword in time for the Renaissance Festival. In the end, I choose a highly respected manufacturer who told me they had a production time of about 16 weeks, but thought they could have it done in July to then ship to the scabbard maker who is currently designing a custom scabbard for it as well. To say I was pleasantly surprised was an understatement.

So because I was told it would be completed in time for the festival, I hastily threw down the $300 deposit for the sword to get in their production queue, and then deposited $100 for the scabbard - since that’s apparently what we have to do for the privilege of working with this industry. All told, the sword and scabbard combined will be just under $2500, so this is not a very inexpensive purchase.

Early June came, so I decided to check in and got an e-mail back that they were running ‘a little behind’, but were trying to catch up. No problem, I thought, they’ve still got almost two full months. Late July came with still no proactive update from them, so I checked in again and received notice that they were not going to make the July deadline. I responded once again that my primary concern was to get the sword in time for at least the last weekend of the festival in September, and it was met with a response of “we’re sorry to disappoint, but we just don’t know at this point.” And since then, I have heard nothing else.

Now of course I imagine I will get it eventually, but I am not a re-enactor nor do I live in a place where there are a lot of opportunities/events in which I can really use it outside of the festival. If I don’t get it in time for at least the end of festival I could just as well let it sit in the shipping box until next year. I’m tempted to simply cancel my order and lose the $400 deposit money as a less expensive, yet failed, foray into the world of sword buying. But now I feel bad because the scabbard maker has already begun what appears to be a fair amount of work on the scabbard and it’s not his fault the sword isn't ready.

If the manufacturer had been honest with me upfront and told me ‘we don’t think it can be done in the timeframe you’re asking’, that’s all I really wanted. Sure I would have been bummed, but I likely would have ordered the sword later this year or next to ensure (what should be) plenty of time for them to complete it for next year's Renaissance Festival. There are many other bills I can instead pay with that money until next year. But failing to set and actually meet realistic expectations appears to be a universal problem with sword makers. WHY?!?! And why are we, as consumers who have to give them money up front, simply expected ‘to take it’ because of [insert a myriad number of so-called good excuses]?!?

So in the end, I am very upset that the estimated month I was told this product would be completed is very likely going to be missed by at least another month. And this from a manufacturer that has overwhelming positive reviews here and perhaps the best reputation in the business. I can only conclude from my own experience and similar threads about other industry manufacturers I’ve seen on this forum that this is how the industry works as a whole. As a result, I will be damned if I ever purchase another sword if this is what many consider to be the ‘best of the best’ has to offer.


I know there have been comments about stating what manufacturer people have had poor experiences with, but in this case I do not feel stating the manufacturer’s name will make any difference as they are spoken of with near-universal praise on these forums.

[Jason Elrod]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Patrick Kelly]

Jerad,

Welcome and please don't let one bad experience turn you off of a fascinating hobby. Also, don't be afraid of voicing criticism of a given company, no matter who they are. You'll probably find others share your experience, no matter who it is.

As Nathan has said, that's more the industry norm than the exception. Most makers are craftsman with a passion for the subject not business people, and it shows within the industry. If the company in question is the one I'm thinking of, they're good people with a great product, but they have a habit of making promises before checking to see whether or not they can fulfill them. Most of these companies are small, almost microscopic when compared to other industries. In order to keep the doors open they seem to make a habit of robbing Peter to pay Paul, and they always seem to be on the ragged edge of closure. I've never dealt with a production company I didn't have at least minor issues with at one time or another. My experience with custom makers probably runs about 30%-70% against.

Unfortunately, we customers as a collective body have to shoulder our share of the blame. We tend to feel an emotional connection with the maker, as buying a sword isn't quite the same as buying a car. Many customers tend to look at a maker as their "guy", as such we tend to give them a pass on bad practices. We'd never think of doing that with any other industry, but many times passion over rides principal. I don't know how many times we've seen customers go on lengthy rants about their negative experience, sometimes for months on end. Then, once the item is in hand and the monkey has the new shiny object, all is forgiven and we're happy campers, until next time. That kind of behavior on our part doesn't promote good business practices on theirs. Why should they change when we still support them? Until we start speaking with our purchasing power things will never change.

[William Swiger]

I have noticed that most custom or semi-custom swords I order from US makers usually never meet the estimated completion date. I usually expect to get it a few months later. Not a big deal for me but maybe upsetting to others. Usually, there is no money upfront or just a small deposit.

Even with the higher end production swords that have an advertised maximum waiting time, I sometimes wait over double that time for the sword. Again, this does not really bother me, but has made me more inclined to buy from the secondary market or wait for one to pop up in the Kult of Athena or Viking Shield in-stock offerings.

Supporting the companies and custom makers can only be good for our hobby in the short term and long term. Business practices can be improved overall but it is not like there are tons of alternative options for getting a high quality sword for a reasonable price.

I can say that almost all custom, semi-custom and higher end production swords have met or exceeded my expectations. That is why I continue to to be a repeat customer. Have never been cheated out of money or not received a quality product.

[Scott Hanson]

Hi Jerad,

I agree with Patrick, don't let one bad experience jade you against the entire industry.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are referring to Albion.

Here's my two cents: Albion makes a great product, and they're a great bunch of people, but they do still have issues with overpromising on delivery. I think it is completely fair and reasonable to say that you are not happy with the situation.

I would also hazard a guess that the "near universal" praise is because of the quality of the product, not the quality of the customer experience. I am fortunate enough to live close by and be able to visit their shop from time to time, so I've generally had very positive customer experiences, but I did still experience extended wait times on each sword I purchased from them. I didn't have any deadlines, so it was just a minor inconvenience, but if I were in your shoes I think I'd be pretty frustrated too.

[Jean Thibodeau]