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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Deepeeka Triple Lobed Godfred Reply to topic
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Peter Messent




Location: Texas
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason - here's my MS paint not-so-high-speed drawing of typical Viking sword Construction. I just went over everything to try and make sure I get everything that you weren't sure on, so sorry if I talk about a bunch of stuff you already know.



The grey is, of course, the blade and tang. The green is the fuller, extending past the lower guard (which is purple). The little bit of red is a recess in the lower guard to seat the blade in. The blue is the upper guard, and that is where the tang terminates - that flare at the end of the tang is where it has been peened, like a rivet, to prevent the upper guard from coming off - the tang is not attached to the pommel (orange) at all. The pommel is then riveted (yellow bits are rivets) to the upper guard. On the left, the rivets could be set into the pommel somehow, or perhaps be part of it. In the example on the right, the pommel is hollow and the rivets are one long u-shaped piece, I believe attached to the pommel with resin (?).

On many lower-end swords (and some historical swords - personally, I tend to think that these were either swords made to 'imitate' earlier viking swords, perhaps by a later smith, or a lower-end smith - in either case, it could be that the smith simply did not know the details of construction of the swords they were inspired by, or they opted for a cost-effective alternative), the pommel and upper guard are a single piece instead of two seperate pieces, and the tang goes all the way through both pieces. On these Deepeeka swords, and on some historical swords as Chad corrected me on, the pommel and upper guard ARE two seperate pieces riveted together, but the tang still goes all the way through both pieces.

It still feels like a weird method to me - it seems that once you resolve to have the upper guard and pommel as two seperate pieces, having the tang go all the way through would be more labor-intensive, rather than less.
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
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Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 1,504

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Torres wrote:
is EN45 steel good for swords.? i have seen mixed reviews about it


It's close to 9260; it should be an excellent sword steel. It's 0.5-0.6% carbon, while 9260 is 0.55-0.65% carbon. Otherwise, about the same. The equivalent SAE grade would be 9255.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 746

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just figured I'd drop this here to muddle the situation...


 Attachment: 137.63 KB
viking 18.jpg


A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Peter Messent




Location: Texas
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now I feel rather stupid, I have (or had, not sure if it made it to this PC) pictures of details of that very sword, if I'm not mistaken! Big Grin Thanks for showing it!
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Jason Torres




Location: Virginia
Joined: 16 Mar 2013

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the drawing and the explanation! it is clear to me now. if i was home right now i would pull the trigger on this sword just to be the first to get a look.. to test the waters.
i wont be home for a while so im jus gonna have to wait.
<~~~~~ out to sea Worried
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Just figured I'd drop this here to muddle the situation...


Do you maybe know if it has rivets on the bottom side of upper guard or is it a two piece pommel but without rivets? I know some viking type swords are two piece with tang passing through both pieces and peened on the top but I don't know if such swords also have upper guard and pommel riveted together. These swords are mostly from Slavic lands copying Germanic types.
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Jason Torres




Location: Virginia
Joined: 16 Mar 2013

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Messent wrote:

Those minor (to some) gripes aside, their scabbards are looking good (hopefully wood, or at least hard-something cored?) and some of them have authentic u-shaped chapes, and some leather chapes which I know not everybody likes, but it is a reasonable historical material. The strap bridges looked good too.


just looked again and the KoA site says wood core scabbard ..hmmmmmm
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P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd love to get it and review it but I am not qualified at all to give a helpful review... would any "qualified" sword reviewer even bother with such an inexpensive piece though?

Personally I've always wanted a classic Viking sword, but I don't want to invest a lot in that era, as my interests bring me to the 14th century more. Hence the temptation... Blush
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Jason Torres




Location: Virginia
Joined: 16 Mar 2013

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

if i were home, i would jump on this and buy one up. i am far far far from an expert but just general reviews and a cutting test and functional test would be cool.
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Peter Messent




Location: Texas
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No problem Jason, glad I could help!

I'll probably pick one of these up and I'll do a bit of a review; I haven't handled any museum pieces like some here, so I can't reference contemporary handling characteristics, but I'll do what I can! I will likely buy the Hersir rather than the triple-lobed one, as the Hersir seems to be the only one with a short enough grip. If it's good, I'll probably try a couple more!

Pete
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Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 746

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Robin Smith wrote:
Just figured I'd drop this here to muddle the situation...


Do you maybe know if it has rivets on the bottom side of upper guard or is it a two piece pommel but without rivets? I know some viking type swords are two piece with tang passing through both pieces and peened on the top but I don't know if such swords also have upper guard and pommel riveted together. These swords are mostly from Slavic lands copying Germanic types.

Here is a couple more of that sword...[/img]



 Attachment: 150.29 KB
viking 14.jpg


 Attachment: 131.62 KB
viking 8.jpg


A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Jason Torres




Location: Virginia
Joined: 16 Mar 2013

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks again Peter. i cant wait to see a review! Wink
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Gagan Agarwal




Location: India
Joined: 29 May 2005

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Right from the horse's mouth         Reply with quote

Dear All

I have been following this discussion on our new sword series, and felt that I need to post my views and comments on the same to clarify things.

We, at Deepeeka, have introduced a whole new line of Medieval swords, which can now be viewed at www.deepeeka.com.
These swords come in two versions, "F"- fighting- light combat, and "R"- regular- light tampered. The difference between the two is the edges and the sides, and the quality of heat treatment. We try to maintain a rockwell hardness of 45-48 on these swords. I agree this is far lower than standards, but we are limited by the type of steels available to us in our country. There are better steels, but these are imported, and expensive. And that is the reason, we call our swords light combat, and not full combat.

Yes, these are much lighter than our earlier models, and care has been taken on the balancing point of these swords. They are much tougher, and flexible. The fittings are all malleable steel.

All in all, they are the best of Deepeeka swords till date.

Any issues on design, and otherwise, I will be happy to address and you can write to me directly on the same.

Regards

Gagan Agarwal
deepeeka.com

Deepeeka India
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
Robin Smith wrote:
Just figured I'd drop this here to muddle the situation...


Do you maybe know if it has rivets on the bottom side of upper guard or is it a two piece pommel but without rivets? I know some viking type swords are two piece with tang passing through both pieces and peened on the top but I don't know if such swords also have upper guard and pommel riveted together. These swords are mostly from Slavic lands copying Germanic types.

Here is a couple more of that sword...[/img]


Very interesting, thanks!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Right from the horse's mouth         Reply with quote

Gagan Agarwal wrote:
Dear All

I have been following this discussion on our new sword series, and felt that I need to post my views and comments on the same to clarify things.

We, at Deepeeka, have introduced a whole new line of Medieval swords, which can now be viewed at www.deepeeka.com.
These swords come in two versions, "F"- fighting- light combat, and "R"- regular- light tampered. The difference between the two is the edges and the sides, and the quality of heat treatment. We try to maintain a rockwell hardness of 45-48 on these swords. I agree this is far lower than standards, but we are limited by the type of steels available to us in our country. There are better steels, but these are imported, and expensive. And that is the reason, we call our swords light combat, and not full combat.

Yes, these are much lighter than our earlier models, and care has been taken on the balancing point of these swords. They are much tougher, and flexible. The fittings are all malleable steel.

All in all, they are the best of Deepeeka swords till date.

Any issues on design, and otherwise, I will be happy to address and you can write to me directly on the same.

Regards

Gagan Agarwal
deepeeka.com


So what is the difference in temper between F and R versions and which one has thicker edges, I didn't quite understand that part?
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Gagan Agarwal




Location: India
Joined: 29 May 2005

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Currently, both models have a Rockwell hardness in the range of 45-48. The "F" or the fighting versions, come with a rounded edge, and the sides are 2mm or more. The "R" or regular versions have sides less than 2mm, and have a somewhat more pointed end point. Please see we do not sharpen any of our blades. Since they are all heat treated, they can be sharpened at your end, if desired.

Please also see Deepeeka has not sold any shares or part to any Norwegian company or anyone else. That misnomer is incorrect.

Gagan

Deepeeka India
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Gagan Agarwal




Location: India
Joined: 29 May 2005

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 3:40 am    Post subject: No such thing         Reply with quote

Tom King wrote:
the company got bought by some scandinavian guy; hence the primus line and a major overhaul in the fit, finish, balance, and temper of new deepeeka products. Hopefully they'll jump on the hole left by the "hanwie practical" and create some rebated swords for HEMA and BOTN style combat.


Dear Tom,

Please see none of the above of what you have written is true. I wish you could give me the source of such content. The Primus line is being developed in association with the British museum, and all other new products that come into being in this line too will be associated with museum works.

Deepeeka by itself has not sold any part to anyone. Deepeeka has upped the quality quotient with its new introductions. Yes, we do hope to be able to plug in the hole as you suggested created by some other manufacturers. I will be glad if someone is willing to come in and help us recreate a line for the market, which is more practical and yet economical, as has been the belief at Deepeeka.

Regards

Gagan

Deepeeka India
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Keith B Wescovich




Location: USA CT
Joined: 29 Apr 2013

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Deepeeka Swords         Reply with quote

I just returned from Deepeeka, India and I wanted to add a perspective on the company. They are really working hard to upgrade the quality of their medieval line. They did this a couple years ago in the Roman line and that was very well received. These new swords are head and shoulders better then past production. Keep in mind that Deepeeka, like any large manufacture, has a lot of old products and legacy lines. I would be the first to say that a lot of that older stuff is of uneven quality. I have mostly been working on the Primus line lately, those are really sweet.

RE heat treated EN45: I have done a fair amount of heat treating and forging myself. EN45 makes a good solid sword, there are better steels available to be sure but EN45/1050 is very serviceable in a larger piece where a razor edge is not needed. Deepeeka sword heat treating is decent production work that should be fine for anything short of extended full contact use. I concur with Gagan's evaluation of "light combat"

Keep in mind that not all Deepeeka blades are heat treated to this degree, I have been working with them for more then ten years, feel free to ask me about any specific items.

Keith
Historical consultant
Replica Strategies LLC
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Jason Torres




Location: Virginia
Joined: 16 Mar 2013

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just received an email from KoA and it has good reviews from them. a much better sword then the previous ones sold on the site
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