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Eijse J
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 Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Matthew Amt wrote: | By the American Revolution the bayonet and/or sword were carried in a leather "frog" on a waistbelt or shoulder strap. Some were specifically made with two loops/tubes, one for the bayonet and one for a sword, and it appears that some of these were adopted by infantry who lacked a sword but stuck a tomahawk through that loop instead. This gets way overdone by reenactors, of course! In general I agree that there isn't any medieval equivalent for axes and such. Naturally I made one myself when I was new at the game, but I have long since ditched it!
Matthew |
Thank you for that. Makes me wonder how native Americans carried their tomahawks. Probably in their hands, but I'll have a look into it...
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Terry Thompson
Location: Suburbs of Wash D.C. Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Eijse J wrote: | | You're right, it's not historically accurate. That aside, and at the risk of getting off topic, is it a reliable and practical way of carrying an axe or a mace? If we suddenly lost all our modern weapons and had to go back to killing each other with morning stars and whatnot, would we start lugging them around in a belt ring? It looks to me like it has potential, but I've never tried it out. |
Ring frogs aren't very helpful even today. They seem very beneficial for a quick draw. There is no friction, and the weapon is held in situ only by gravity without a catch or strap to undo.
But the other side-affects are that the weapon flops around on your thigh even while walking, much less a dead run, where it pummels your thigh and calf. A sharpened impliment like an axe is potentially going to cut you or it's blade will be fouled on your armour while it flips about.
Tucking a lighter weapon like a mace or hand-axe into your belt keeps it more static. No slapping your thigh, and less likely to have the haft catch your calf and hobble you on the run, or shoved up and into your gut.
They do work at renfairs with blunted/foam weapons. So, if some magic in the universe occurse that makes both gunpowder and steel non-functional, and all we have to harm each other is foam weapons. Then yes. Ring frogs will become very popular.
Now, since we are on the subject of ring suspensions, I do believe that some 14th century sword scabbards did have ring & hook mounts for pulling on and off belts. But these are miniscule compared to a belt frog, and I would think the much finer tolerance and crosshilts probably reduced the amount of bobbling.
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: Re: How did people carry their axes, maces and war hammers? |
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| Roberto Banfi wrote: | | Mart Shearer wrote: | | http://molcat1.bl.uk/IllImages/Kslides/big/K055/K055936.jpg |
whoah, this is a nice one! what about date? I guess... first half 14 century ? |
British Library gives Egerton 3028 as 2nd quarter of the 14th, so 1326-1350, English. The whole set should be in the next update at manuscriptminiatures.com this next week.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Mart Shearer
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I could be mistaken, but I suspect that ring holders come about with the adoption of PR-24 style batons by police officers. Looking at old movies, it seems that earlier officers liked to keep batons in their hands, slapping them into their palms to send a signal.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Roberto Banfi
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
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what in case they are only backup weapons to switch on only after the lost or the primary one?
the primary could be a two handed plain infantry spear and after closing into a melče the short axe / mace / hammer is preferrable
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John Wills
Location: Northamptonshire UK Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2012 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I think "axe-rings" look wrong and are dangerous, I have seen axes fall out of them plenty of times during combat reenactment. If axes fall from rings when play acting then I see no reason why anyone would have used them when fighting for their life. Axes falling from rings in a reenactment is dangerous for obvious reasons but falling in real battle is even more dangerous for the chap who has dropped it and lost his weapon!
Regarding grave finds; all the metal rings around the hip area I have come across in graves are in the graves of women suggesting they are the tops of pockets (a sock type bag hanging from a bone, metal or wooden ring).
I'm with Matt and Dave on this, stuff it in your belt or carry it if it's too big.
grim gušplega, ęr we gofol syllon!
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Roberto Banfi
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| Posted: Wed 19 Dec, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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got this from a fellow reenactor
this depiction shows weapons someway hung or tucked behind the belt, it's quite difficult to understand exactly if there is any kind of "mount"
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