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Timo Nieminen
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 Posted: Sun 25 Nov, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: | | Timo Nieminen wrote: | | It's also a way to get an acute edge angle for cutting, or to maintain stiffness for thrusting. Or even about replicating historical thicknesses. It's not just about mass and moment of inertia. To see that some particular sword thins down to 2mm near the tip can tell you that (a) it cuts well with the tip, and (b) it's more historically accurate than most. |
Well that's assuming that (a) you have further data about the whole cross-section (as thickness alone does not tell you much about the edge angle) and (b) you have info of thickness on originals, which is not something common as far as I'm aware. |
Indeed. But every bit of info can help. It's easier to judge this from measurements of thickness rather than numbers for moment of inertia, mass, CoM, pivot points/points of percussion. The latter dictate handling (neglecting flex), but there's more to cutting and historicity than handling.
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Timo Nieminen
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| Posted: Sun 25 Nov, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: |
But then to use the info you actually need the whole cross-section, so tapers are still not enough. Just fullers will alter the behaviour of the blade... |
Yes. Pretty much requires numerical solution. You don't need to do the whole dynamics of a blade flexing; just a number for the stiffness for a given cross-section is good enough to start with. Sounds like a good student project. Perhaps I can be back in a year with more if there are any takers?
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Luka Borscak
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
Location: Madison, WI Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Sun 25 Nov, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Distal taper is a small percentage of what is actually important when building a sword, and I rather doubt that by providing information as to what the distal taper is one could make a better informed decision as to how a sword will behave in hand. Likewise, profile taper, point of balance, and other static measurements can not do a sword justice. If you had a way of calculating mass distribution throughout a blade, this again would not allow you to make a better decision. Even if you were to take a 3D scan of the completed sword, taking into account any sized hollowing in the pommel and or guard, this information really would not provide a light in the dark. As Robin Smith stated, it is how the whole sword comes together. This is really important, how the whole sword comes together is critically important, how the sword feels in your specific hand, how it works with you mind and your body.
Unfortunately it is close to impossible to gather this information without having the sword in hand, especially when dealing with custom projects. However there are two critical things that need to be considered, the knowledge and reputation of the individual that you are doing business with, as well as communicating what the return policy is. Not every sword is for every person, and if after considering either a persons, or companies, work you would like to acquire a piece, it should be very well within your right to return the product if it doesn't meet or exceed your expectations, or simply if it doesn't fit. Micromanaging every detail is a great hobby, but if you are serious, getting the piece in your hand and seeing how it works with you is the only way of determining if said sword is right for you.
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Jack Savante
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| Posted: Tue 27 Nov, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you Michael, that's a good point, that distal taper is not a holy grail. While it is great to know that a sword maker knows what distal taper is, you're right in saying that there is probably not an ascertainable formula to nailing it, and all other factors work in their own way too.
Beautiful riding sword by the way! I didn't think the review did it justice. Fantastic work!
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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| Posted: Tue 27 Nov, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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If you were to take a 3D scan of the completed sword,
the study of the sections, (also 5 mm for each) the taper, the influence of the fuller. This helps to understand how to involve the sword, but only held in the hand and comparing it with an original can evaluate the differences.
In another important aspect. Which heat treatment and what material is it made the original? This can be crucial. May be more or less flex.
The study of the mass distribution helps us to predict the behavior of the sword, but holding it is the real difference.
Conclusion: the sword is a creature held together by a extraordinary balance.
This is my insignificant thoughts.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Jack Savante
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| Posted: Sun 16 Dec, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Everything so far has been interesting, I guess what I'm sensing is that there isn't a consensus amongst forumites as to how distal taper applies to a particular Oakeshott Type, other than in a broad sense.
I wonder if the archaeological record bears this out?
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